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-   -   M103 Oil leak or burning? (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=102977)

lino 09-12-2004 03:49 AM

This is the lower part of the front of the passenger side:
http://img19.exs.cx/img19/6427/DSC01770.jpg

I have a feeling that some of the stains are old. I want to shampoo the engine completely to see where the oil is coming from after it's clean. I can take more pictures. Just tell me what you want to see and then I will clean the engine.

Gilly 09-12-2004 09:50 AM

I'd like to see the pictures of the sparkplugs all look like the picture you took of the #6 plug. The 1 thru 5 pictures are too poor to tell the condition. Based on the picture of the #6 plug, I think valve stem seals are the correct diagnosis. At under 120,000 miles I wouldn't even begin to consider valve guides. Maybe the NEXT time it needs seals.......
I also would tend to think about just doing the front cover lip seal, but if you want you could pressure wash this area (forward section of the cylinder head-to-block mating area and front cover) and then keep watching it every day to see where the oil starts running or spreading from.

Gilly

psfred 09-12-2004 11:38 AM

If that is brown instead of black, they are normal. However, they should be LIGHT brown to light tan, any hint of black on the center electrode means running somewhat to very rich. You can check that with a duty cycle meter (or plain digital VOM) between pins #3 (red lead) and #2 (black lead, ground) on the diagnostics connector on the left fender -- the one with the round screw-on cap.

If they are oily at all, you have bad valve guides most likely.

Peter

haasman 09-12-2004 11:50 AM

Peter

When one checks the duty cycle:

"check that with a duty cycle meter (or plain digital VOM) between pins #3 (red lead) and #2 (black lead, ground) on the diagnostics connector on the left fender -- the one with the round screw-on cap"

What value should I be seeing?

Haasman

psfred 09-12-2004 12:22 PM

Should be variable around 50% or about 6.5V. Some engines run better at 45% (mine does), usually indicating a need for new injectors (a later project, probably next year).

Fixed means it's running it open loop mode for some reason.

Peter

lino 09-13-2004 12:15 AM

After I repair my car, I will have to consider purchasing a higher quality camera with macro. My camera does not have the macro feature which is useful for taking close-up pictures. I spent hours and this is the best I have.

Photo Session #2 of the Spark Plugs:

Spark Plug 1
http://img46.exs.cx/img46/1777/SparkPlug1DSC018191.jpg

Spark Plug 2
http://img46.exs.cx/img46/2574/SparkPlug2DSC018201.jpg

Spark Plug 3
http://img46.exs.cx/img46/4991/SparkPlug3DSC018211.jpg

Spark Plug 4
http://img46.exs.cx/img46/8639/SparkPlug4DSC018251.jpg

Spark Plug 5
http://img46.exs.cx/img46/9562/SparkPlug5DSC018301.jpg

Spark Plug 6
http://img46.exs.cx/img46/2591/SparkPlug6DSC018351.jpg

lino 09-13-2004 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilly
Yes the "R&R headgasket" means the headgasket was replaced.
Gilly

I just got off the phone with the dealer and the service department guy actually took the time to go through some of the service records with me for the first time. He said that the reason why the head gasket was replaced was, beacuse there was engine oil mixing with coolant - blown head gasket and that when the head gasket was replaced, they didn't change anything inside the engine.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilly
The other one, the R&R Transmission 722.0-722.4 means the transmission was removed. It's all rather cryptic, but I am assuming they may have had to replace a cracked "flex plate", which is what drives the torque converter. Either that or there is more to that work order you're not saying, like they resealed the front pump in the transmission, or replaced the rear main seal in the engine, something like that. No other good reason to R&R (remove and reinstall) the transmission.
Gilly

The reason why this was done was, beacuse where the starter/ring gear connect to the transmission there are teeth and so the transmission had to be removed for the job. (Something like that)

Gilly 09-13-2004 02:11 PM

OK, so I was right about R&R headgasket.
On the R&R transmission, still he's not saying what was done exactly, but IIRC there was something you wrote down about R&R driven plate or something, which would be the flex plate, not the flywheel. YES there are teeth on the flywheel the starter engages in to, but not sure what this has to do with....anything. Especially in regards to replacing the headgasket.

Gilly

lino 09-13-2004 03:28 PM

Gilly:

Did you see the spark plug pics I posted 3 posts up?

autozen 09-13-2004 06:22 PM

Lino,
Please don't post so many pics, because my little hook up doesn't work so fast. Waiting as long as I have for the down loads I've forgotten what the point is. My experience has been. You never say that it has been my experience, because that is weak sentence structure. Trust me. I know these things, because I am a mechanic. At any rate, worn valve seals on these engines result in smoking engines. You can replace the seals and eliminate the smoke, but if the guides are worn the car will not smoke, but the engine will use oil. I've been through this several times. At this time I have an 87 300E that was smoking badly when I bought it for a song. I installed valve seals and the smoking stopped. I'm keeping the car, because Christine wants it. She works in wine country and travels the back roads. She prefers its nimbleness to the SELs. I guess I'll keep it until a 90 or 91 comes around. The point is that the car drinks oil, because the guides are shot. When I put seals in, I noticed play in the guides. It needs a valve job.

Peter

Gilly 09-13-2004 08:21 PM

Yeah, I seen the new pictures, the pictures are a little better. #5 if you look at the ceramic part around the center electrode looks a little like what I normally see when the guides are shot. The color is about normal on all of them, but I see alot of these with the shiny deposits with about the same color. It'd help alot to know how long these were installed, I don't think yo know that tho.
The bottom line on just new valve stem seals vs new guides is just what Peter mentioned; when the springs are removed from a cylinder, see how much movement (play) there is in the valve, if you wanted to be critical you'd actually find out what is acceptable and measure the play, I suppose with a dial indicator. Usually I'd just accept that they'll be fine at around 100K miles and putting in the first replacement set of seals.
Did you ever find out WHY they replaced the flywheel (if that's what it was) or is it actually the driven plate, which is a much thinner part and has been known to crack? Does the work order information that you have actually list what the owner was complaining about?

Gilly

autozen 09-13-2004 09:41 PM

Gilly is right on. When I did the seals, I noticed a lot of clearance of the valves in the guides, so I did the seals as a bandaid. I will eventually pull the head and do the guides.

Peter

lino 09-13-2004 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilly
Does the work order information that you have actually list what the owner was complaining about?
Gilly

I scanned the portion of the work order that has the information regarding this repair. Bear in mind that this is a Canadian car, so mileage is in KM and $$$ are Canadian.

http://img28.exs.cx/img28/2419/9150.jpg

lino 09-13-2004 11:46 PM

Parts Required
 
Looks like I have lots to do. First, I will shampoo the engine and monitor the leak.

I did a lot of reading using the SEARCH function on this forum and here is what I came up with to supplement all of your collective advice:

To do a comprehensive repair, changing the following parts would be a good idea:

142. Cam Gear Cover Seal
143. Cam Gear Cover Gasket
http://img28.exs.cx/img28/8051/9151.jpg

2. Valve Cover Gasket
13. Valve Stem Seal Kit
14. Exhaust Guides
15. Intake Guides
30. Timing Chain
31. Chain Tensioner
http://img28.exs.cx/img28/2216/9152.jpg

I will also need Mercedes Black Sealer (in the dealer's system it is known as part # 002 989 73 20 10 RADIATOR SEAL KIT). This product is the same as Loctite 5900.
http://img46.exs.cx/img46/7277/untitled587.jpg

My parts supplier doesn't carry Loctite 5900. I can buy it from the dealer. They recommended the following products. Does anyone here have any comments?
http://www.reycomotor.com/Reyco/Elrings2.htm

Does this sound right? Did I miss anything?

Thank You

lino 09-13-2004 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by autozen
Lino,
Please don't post so many pics, because my little hook up doesn't work so fast. Waiting as long as I have for the down loads I've forgotten what the point is.
Peter

I'm real sorry about that. I will keep that in mind and post smaller pictures in future posts. I just reduced the size of the pictures of the spark plugs too.


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