Need help with stalling 1989 300TE - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

BENZ-LGB · #1 01-19-2005, 10:10 AM

Good morning fellow brothers and sisters of the BENZ

My college-age daughter has a 1989 300TE that we bought for her a couple of years ago. The car has 180K miles on it and, except for the problem detailed below, it is in primo condition.

The problem? An intermittent stalling condition that has me very worried about her safety while driving on the freeways (and makes me want to dump the car). I am hoping to get some answers here because my mechanic seems unable to diagnose and fix the problem. Here is a chronology of events:

1. 10.30.04. I take the car to the mechanic because of a rough idle condition, because the engine idles too high (and for regular service). The mechanic replaces the motor mounts and replaces a “close position switch.” Cost of repairs $384.00. The engine’s rough idles has improved and the high idle condition is gone. Now the car begins to intermittently stall. (More details regarding the stalling below).

2. 01.04.05. I take the car back to the mechanic. He replaces the fuel pump relay and adjusts the throttle linkage. Cost of repairs $190.00. My daughter picks up the car and before she gets home, the car stalls again. Back to the mechanic.

3. 01.07.05. The car is back at the shop. Mechanic the oxygen sensor, cleans the fuel injectors and replaces the electro-hydraulic actuator (EHA). He writes on the service notes that the “condition (stall) cannot be replicated during operating conditions. Cost of repairs this time: $523.00 (running tab since 10.30.04 = over $1,000.00 !!! and the car still stalls).

The car stalls when it is cold or when it is warm (doesn’t matter).

The car starts fine.

The idle is smooth.

The car stalls when it is either slowing down to a stop or when it comes to a stop. My daughter says she can feel the “car dying.” She also says it happens more often when coming downhill.

The car stalls during initial trip (after warm-up) or after it has been stopped for a while and then re-started (it doesn’t seem to matter).

After the car stalls, my daughter puts it in PARK and the car fires back up again with no problem.

Sometimes she can go for days without stalling. Other times it will stall once or twice during a single trip.

I am at my wit’s end (and apparently so is my mechanic).

I need help because I am concerned about my daughter’s safety and I can’t keep throwing parts and money at this car (I am ready to buy her a Honda!).

1. What are some of the trued and tried cures that have actually worked over the long haul? (I did a search here and there were a lot of fixes, but I couldn’t figure out which were the permanent fixes because there is usually no longer term feedback from happy owners).

2. Is there any significance to the fact that the car starts back up again after it stalls?

3. Is there any significance that the stall sometimes happens while stopping/coasting going downhill?

4. Should I be concerned about a mechanic who can’t diagnose and fix a problem like this? Should I ask for partial reimbursement of the money spent on fixes that don’t work? This mechanic has worked on my 1991 420SEL and has done a good job with it and I generally trust him. He is willing to keep trying to look for a fix, but I am worried because it is my daughter's car and I am very concerned for her safety.

This concerned Dad will appreciate any and all suggestions. Thanks in advanced.

PS. By the way, I wish to thank all of the users here, who have written to me asking about my medical condition. Back in 2003 I was diagnosed with a non-cancerous brain tumor (see my thread “How Sex Saved My Life.”) I had gamma knife “surgery” on November 2003. Last May I had an MRI and everything looks fine and I have not had negative side effects from the gamma knife (I am still as cranky as ever). Thank God for modem medical technology and thanks God for friends who keep tabs on me. Now if I could only get the stall in my daughter’s car fixed I will be a very happy and content camper.

THANKS!!!

Glick · #2 01-19-2005, 11:39 AM

I have the same car, did the same thing you describe. Idle speed control switch fixed mine. It has a little rotating "door" per say and mine would stick occasionally resulting in the engine dying. At the end of the switch is an exposed shaft about 3/16 in diameter. Mine had rust on it, clean off the rust, lubricated it with some spray lubricant and then took the leads to battery to make the switch open and close several times. Has been working fine ever since (it's been over two years). Good luck!

Eric.

dtanesq · #3 01-19-2005, 08:33 PM

Others know better than I, but I'll suggest this:

I had a 300E with the same symptoms. Try another fuel pump relay and the overvoltage protection relay.

Try another mechanic.

suginami · #4 01-19-2005, 08:57 PM

You live in Southern California.

I might be wrong, but I think you live in the Santa Clarita area.

I live in Diamond Bar, and I take my car to the famous Enrique at Mr. MB Motors. It is 51 miles from my house to his shop in Tarzana, but it is worth every penny.

I had a fault code #26 problem, upshift delay valve, that the dealer and two independent MB mechanics couldn't fix.

He did.

Do a search on his name and you'll get a ton of hits.

I'd also suggest checking out the OVP.

dtanesq · #5 01-19-2005, 09:00 PM

Paul:

I thought Benz-LGB lives and works in the Inland Empire. Can you give him a recommendation for that area if I'm correct?

suginami · #6 01-19-2005, 09:27 PM

I don't think he lives in the Inland Empire, but if he does, it is a barren wasteland as far as MB mechanics.

There are none that I know of, and I would know. I work in the Inland Empire (Ontario).

If he does, the closest would be MB Stars in Walnut.

They post in this forum under MB Stars. They are twin brothers, and earned the Master Guild Technician award many times over when they both worked at Penske Mercedes in West Covina.

I do take my car there as well, and they are very, very good.

BENZ-LGB · #7 01-20-2005, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtanesq

Paul:

I thought Benz-LGB lives and works in the Inland Empire. Can you give him a recommendation for that area if I'm correct?

Good morning fellow ESQ. I live, work and play in wonderful (and recently soggy) Ventura County. I have been tempted to try Enrique @ Mr. MB Motors. Everyone raves about him. I have decided, however, to give my local mechanic one more try.

I pulled a thread here that was started by memeber Garth. His car's symptoms were almost identical to my daughter's car. On advice from the moderators-techs he looked into the potentiometer, the airflow sensor and increasing engine's idle speed (this last cure was included in a Benz service bulletin). Apparently the pot and the airflow meter fixes worked for Garth.

My mechanic kept the car's old EHA (the one he replaced back on 01.07.05) and will put it back in the car and he will then focus on the pot and the airflow meter. I hope this works. Otherwise I will buy my daughter a GM product and be done with the problem.

I mention GM because three years ago I bought my wife a Yukon XL. This is our third large GM suv. The gas mileage sucks, but the engine in the Yukon is bullet proof and very cheap on maintenance. I checked the records for the last three years and all it has ever needed were oil changes.

My daughter loves her Benz and when it is running well, it is a beuatiful car.
But like most Benzes it can be a maintenance whore. Oh well...I'll report back on whether this last round of repairs worked. In the meantime, keep the suggestions coming (just in case these repairs don't work

)

BENZ-LGB · #8 01-23-2005, 11:49 AM

Here is an update regarding my daughter's 300TE and the stalling problem--things are not good

After the repairs of 01.07.05, my daughter's 300TE has continued to stall. So this past Friday I brought the car back to the mechanic. I also brought with me the thread that Garth had going regarding the stalling problem in his 300E. Based upon the information on the thead, the mechanic agreed to look into the potentiometer.

When I called him, he said he had replaced the potentiometer (he explained to me how the potentiometer is supposed to work and how it affects the engine's idle as the car comes to a stop). He also adjusted the ilde speed (up). He told me that he test drove the car and the car was working fine.

My daughter and I went to pick up the car. On the freeway, no more than 5 miles away from the mechanic the car stalled as my daughter was slowing down to stop (I was following behind her). The car stalled twiced more while she was driving it. We pulled over and I traded places with her. The car stalled on me several times as well. (Each time it happened I was slowing down to a stop).

On the way home I took the car to a deserted country road near where I live. I tested the car by accelerating hard (it accelerates like a rocket) and then coming to an abrupt stop. No stalling.

But if I I slowed down to a stop the car would just die on me. It would not sputter and die (like when a car does when it runs out of gas). It would just shut down, like someone had turned off the key. No stuttering, no shudders, no surges, just the engine turning off, like somone had turned the key and turned the engine off. A complete and totally "smooth death." When it stalled, I would put it in PARK and then start the car right back again--as if nothing had happened.

The car's stalling problem is now worse after the mechanic changed the potentiometer.

I ave made up my mind that I am not taking the car back to the current mechanic. The owner of the current shop sold the shop to a new mechanic (the one working on my daughter's car now). the old mechanic was very good at diagnosing and fixing problems. The new mechanic/owner is a nice guy, but I can't afford to trust my daughter's safety to him, while he keeps trying fixes that don't work. More than the money itself (which is a BIG issue) is the question of my daughter's safety. I just won't have her driving a car that repeatedly stalls.

Tomorrow, I am taking the car to Enrique. It is a bit of a drive out of my way, but you guys here rave so much about him, that I just have to give him a try.

Before I take the car to Enrique, I would like to ask your opinion on some issues.

1. How do you suggest I approach the current mechanic about the worhtless repairs? I am not taking the car back to him, ever again, so I can't prevail on his goodwill. Legally I have several options, but I want to stay away from the legal arena (at least for now) so any suggestions?

2. If Enrique can't fix the stall, is it time to dump the 300TE? Other than the stalling (and this is a big "other than") the car runs great and is mechanically and cosmetically in great shape. Have the rest of you who, have experienced stalling problems with your 300E cars, been able to successfully resolve the problem (on a long term basis)?

3. Any suggestions on how to deal with Enrique as a new customer? Should I bring him bagels and donuts

Should I mention this website?

Thanks for all your help and suggestions.

I will post final results after Enrique tends to the 300TE.

psfred · #9 01-23-2005, 12:14 PM

If the stalling is ONLY when coming to a stop, clean the idle control valve and replace the idle control valve hoses, they are leaking air making the problem worse. If the stalling still occurs, you may need to clean the valve again or replace it.

If the stalling occurs at ANY other time than coming to a farily fast stop, replace the fuel pump relay.

I would also recommend a new OVP relay if you still have the original, this can also cause the fuel system to loose control of the mixture and cause a stall on stopping.

Peter

#10 01-23-2005, 04:21 PM

My son's '86 300E was doing the same thing, dying when slowing down or going into a turn. Wasn't every time, just enough to make him unsure of taking the car to work/school and back. I troubleshot and tried various parts: OVP, Fuel Pump relay, Idle Control Relay, etc. I finally duplicated the failure one day at home, it turned out to be the distributor cap. I ordered an new one from parts lane, and it has never cut out or died since. Just my .02 worth.

arwe · #11 01-24-2005, 12:29 AM

No help here, just adding that my 1991 560 SEL has the identical problem. In fact it's done this for several years...I've just learned to adapt because I, too, have taken it in (to three different shops) with no improvement, despite fuel injection cleaning, gas/air ratio adjustment and distributor cap replacement. Maybe it's due to one of the problems noted above. The idle control valve sounds reasonable. Maybe I'll take it back in...

michael cole · #12 01-24-2005, 12:18 PM

it may seem obvious but was the fuel filter replaced?i didnt see it on the list.how about sparkplugs,wires and distributor cap.any mechanic worth his salt will perform the basic tuneup first before throwing the other stuff in

250 Coupe · #13 01-24-2005, 04:43 PM

How's this for off the wall? What if the vacuum booster leaks a bit at some point in its travel. A fast stop goes past the problem while a slow stop hesitates long enough for the engine to go lean?

Michael

BENZ-LGB · #14 01-24-2005, 06:59 PM

Here is a "brief" recap of the current and recnet repair history that is relevant to the stalling problem:

Recent repair history:

1. 10.30.04. The engine had a cold rough idle. After the engine warmed up, the engine idle speed was high. The car was hard to start when the engine was cold. When the engine was cold and it was idling rough, the car stalled, a couple of times. Once the engine warmed up, however, the engine would not stall again.

I took the car to the mechanic because of the rough and fast idle condition. The mechanic replaced the motor mounts and replaced a “close position switch.” The engine’s rough idles improved and the high idle condition is gone. Cost of repairs $384.00.

However, after the repairs made on October 30, 2004, the car began to stall.

2. 01.04.05. I take the car back to the mechanic. He replaced the fuel pump relay and adjusted the throttle linkage. Cost of repairs $190.00.

My daughter picked up the car and before she got home, the car stalled again. Back to the mechanic.

3. 01.07.05. The car is back at the shop. The mechanic replaced the oxygen sensor, cleaned the fuel injectors, and replaced the electro-hydraulic actuator (EHA). The mechanic told me that he test-drove the car for several days and the car did not stall out on him. He wrote on the service notes that the “condition (stall) cannot be replicated during operating conditions. Cost of repairs this time: $523.00.

4. 01.21.05. The car continued to stall. I took it back to the mechanic. He replaced the potentiometer and adjusted the engine idle speed (up). The mechanic said that he test-drove the car and that it ran fine; but when my daughter and I went to pick up the car on Saturday, it stalled several times on the freeway and on surface streets. We switched cars (to see if maybe it was the way my daughter drives the car that makes it stall) and it stalled on me too. The stalling problem is much worse now than before.

The car stalls when it is cold or when it is warm (doesn’t matter).

The car starts fine.

The idle is smooth.

The car stalls when it is either slowing down to a stop or when it comes to a “coasting” stop. It does not stall when the car stops hard. My daughter says she can feel the “car dying.” She also says it happens more often when coming downhill.

The car stalls during initial trip (after warm-up) or after it has been stopped for a while and then re-started (it doesn’t seem to matter).

After the car stalls, my daughter puts it in PARK and the car fires back up again with no problem.

Sometimes she can go for days without stalling. Other times it will stall once or twice during a single trip.

Relevant repair history

May 20, 2002. The car stalled while my daughter was driving. The car would not start again (now it stalls, but it starts back up again). The mechanic replaced both fuel pumps, fuel filter, and fuel pump relay. Car ran fine.

October 29, 2002. The car stalled a couple of times while my daughter was driving. Mechanic replaced the Idle Speed Control Valve and cold start valve hose, replaced the airflow sensor, replaced the hose to the idle speed control, and replaced the brake booster vacuum hose.

Nov. 1, 2002: The car was still stalling. When the car stalled, it was hard to start again. The mechanic replaced the Hall Effect Sensor and voila! no more stalling!

January 8, 2004. The car was running fine, but as part of regular service, the mechanic replaced the air hoses (vacuum) for idle circuit.

July 28, 2004. The mechanic replaced the speed regulator. (I cannot remember what the complain was at this time or why the speed regulator was replaced). After the replacement of the speed regulator, the idle was always high and the car was hard to start.

The car ran fine (well, at least no more stalling) until October of this year.

I wish one of the Techs/Moderators would take a look at this thread and offer his/their suggestions.

I could not take the car to Enrique. It was stalling so bad that I was very worried about driving it on the freeway from home to the San Fernando Valley.

So, instead, I took it to another local mechanic who, long ago, worked on my diesel (he is still working on it, because the new owner takes it to him!). This mechanic is an old school mechanic and many people swear by him. So maybe, just maybe, this time will be the charm.

Again, thanks for your posts/suggestions (Keep them coming). And if any tech/moderator wishes to chime in, please go ahead.

psfred · #15 01-24-2005, 09:10 PM

About the only things left are the coil and ignition module (assuming you have new plugs, wires, cap and rotor!).

Peter