I just bought a '92 400e (119.975)with 97K on the clock. I have read that the timing chain guides are a ~150K mile maintenance item. Does the chain need replaced, or just the guide/tensioners? I have also read that it's about a ~$2K repair bill. I am not hearing anything from the engine at this point, but I want to be aware of impending disaster/repair bill.

From the previous post, doing the guide and tensioner doesn't look like that big a deal, mabye it's a different engine due to earlier vintage? Any ideas how long it would take a mechanic to check it? Can it be checked without major teardown? Larry indicated a 50K mile check. Is this something that would be checked in the normal "used car checkout" job?

Any inputs would be appreciated. Cheers!

The chains on the M119's and newer V8's should last close to forever. Only the old M117/116's should be done every 100k-125k or so.

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

I had to do the head on my 300e M103.983 engine at 120K due to valve guide wear. Mechanic said worst cylinder taper of the 6 was .003, .015 allowable. He did guides and chain while he had it torn down.

I understand the '92 400e has the 119.975 engine, is this the one that you have to watch the guides on, or was it the earlier v-8's? I am not expecting any trouble at 97K, but assumed from previous posts that the guides/chain had to be done at 150-180K. I realize it is mechanical, and everything I own seems to die at 1/2 of expected life, but was looking for "usually" type indicators.

Thanks!

Opinions differ on whether to prophylactically replace the chain on a 119 motor. My mechanic, and Stu Ritter, both say not to worry until you hear a slapping or rapping noise at startup -- as soon as you do, though, you shut down the engine and replace the chain + guides.

As I understand it, the 119 is less prone to chain/guide failures than earlier V8s as the chain makes larger-radius turns than older V8s.

For what it's worth, I have 155k miles on mine and still have the original chain; I am planning to take my chances and wait for the chain to get noisy.

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Steve
'93 400E

Most MB engine experts will tell you that 10 years and/or 100K miles is a good timetable for replacing the timing chains and related parts. The chains seldom break though they do stretch a bit. However the plastic guide rail pieces become brittle with age...and if they break then you are looking at major damage to the engine if the plastic piece falls into the chain and the chain jumps time.

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1986 560 SEL (159K miles)

I think a real expert will tell you that it's a function of which motor.

M116/117's I change every 100K. M119's seem happy to 150+ but I wouldn't take it past 200K. M103's I Like to see those changed by 150. All my gassers (Except the V12 have had their chains/tensioner/rails changed.

IMHO it's Cheap insurance..


Jonathan

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I can actually get a chain replacement on a V8 Mercedes of this vintage at a local shop that specializes in Mercedes for about $400-$500 so that does not concern me. That was the price I was quoted (parts and labor) when I was considering the local 85' 500SEL. I am assuming that the 87' 4.2 engine would be about the same?

The common oil burning problem mentioned about the inline 3.0L 6-cylinder does concern me though and perhaps I should steer clear of the 90' 300TE and the 91' 300SD all together- even though my uncle's 90 300TE wagon with 160K is still in perfect running order. I think it is all in how a car is maintained/treated.

The tranny in the local 87' 420SEL for $2200 is solid- perfect shifts. It was a 1-owner, well maintained, garage kept car. The only downfall as mentioned is that it has 249K.

I recently did this job - chain,tensioner, upper guides, etc (86 560, 87.5Kmi) - and I can't say what condition the chain was in, but my tensioner was very clearly not doing what it was supposed to do - hold oil pressure. It didn't have nearly the "spring" in it either as the new one did (I think the spring is in there for "insurance"). I suspect that the "catastrophe" occurs when you start the engine without oil pressure in the tensioner, and the spring finally becomes to weak to hold things together during the critical time before the engine oil pressure comes up.

The guides were brown through and through (I dug into one to see how far the brown color was). I suspect that this material is nylon, which is strong, but does contain moisture - moisture that probably gets replaced with oil over time, weakening it (where the brown color comes from, probably).

My car was, and is, kept up very well (MB service till I bought it) with regular oil changes, and all scheduled services. I don't think any amount of normal scheduled maintenance will forestall the ravages of time...

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86 560SL
With homebrew first gear start!
85 380SL
Daily Driver Project

http://juliepalooza.8m.com/sl/mercedes.htm

86560SEL name any car on the market and I will find a chronic problem that model has. Nothing is perfect.

I think the engines that MB made that are the closest to perfect (read no major problem areas) are:
M119 oil tubes in the heads can blow the caps off cheap fix
M112 V6 Harmonic balancer currently being recalled
M113 can't think of one.

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

deanyel said: I think a real expert will tell you that it's a function of which motor.
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You sir are correct. I should have said the 100K/10 year chain updates aply to the MB V-8s......420/560, etc.

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1986 560 SEL (159K miles)

Are you speaking of new cars or used (older) cars?


I really want the 87 420SEL, but that mileage concerns me. Yes, it is a well maintained, 1-owner car, but since the guy that bought it from the original owner does not know when the timing chain/tensioners were changed, if I did buy it, I guess I might as well have it replaced. I just wish there was an easier way to tell.

I did not mean to let on that all cars are perfect, but some are close as far as reliability.

Well the M119 V8 first came to the states in 1992 in the e and s class. W124 and W140.

The M112's first year was 1998 in the W210, afaik.
Same for the M113 both very trouble free motors.

If the body and interior are in good shape go for it. Age is just as bad as mileage and these are all old cars by now.

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

I know from experience it's hazardous to make statements like this - there's always someone correcting you. The 119 motor actually started in the 1990 500SL. Now someone will probably correct me.

I figured someone would, I don't no much about the SL's so I didn't know that.

Just read AFAIK in front of that post.

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200