PJG56 you are one of the few honest mechanics out there who probably has repeat customers. (There is a guy out in Los Angeles, California named Enrique who is also a pretty good and honest mechanic. He has lots of recommendations on this forum). The Mercedes Benz mechanic I go to is also pretty honest. I've been a repeat customer for the past 4 years for various items. My mom and uncle has been his customer for the past 15 years. My cousin is thinking of buying a Mercedes and I will make sure he brings his car to this mechanic if he ever has any problems.

I applaud you for your honesty. Too bad there aren't more people like you around in the repair business.

Pride and honor is slowly slipping away in business....nowadays it's all about the money.

Very interesting thread. I believe business schools may somewhat be to blame here. They emphasize creating good processes to leverage the cheapest resources possible. The theory is if you are a smart manager you should be able to create a process to deliver quality service/goods with the cheapest talent/supplies. It's all about price pressures and margins.

The good side is that people like us (discriminating eye for quality) learn to do things ourselves. The bad side is that if you do not manage your vendor you will get the lowest pass-able quality. If you don't want to do-it-yourself you need to know how to manage your vendor.

I'm looking for a good indy in the Bay Area. I want to have all the fluid flushed and I don't have a lift or the facilities to deal with brake fluid, tranny fluid, and hypoid oil. I've had sloppy experiences with most of the shops around town. Mechanics have replaced perfectly good O2 sensors when supposedly only diagnosing, put out-of-round tires on and blamed the alignment. The only guy I know that is decent is very expensive. So I can either pay top-dollar for a shop that uses quality talent ($105/hr) or figure out how to manage a shop that is using commodity labor ($65/hr). Sure, I can draw up the acceptance criteria and make the shop sign their side of the deal but is that what it's coming to? Do I really need to draw 2cc's of brake fluid and test that it is DOT 4 with zero contaminants? Do I need to draw off and test some tranny fluid from the transmission to ensure they actually flushed the system and drained the torque converter?

-Robert

Here's a good one. My TE had been showing a check engine light for over a year with a 5 code,,, EGR. Early this year I put spark plugs and wires in it because it had started to run rough. Turns out that the plugs, and I'm sure the wires, were original,,,, 103K. Since I changed them, the CE light has not come on. Now if I had taken it to a tech, and he diagnosed the problem as an EGR valve or pipe, and done the work, I would have paid happily and hoped the problem was gone. And he would have done the work with the best info he had at the time. Just being the Devils advocate here,,,, sometimes mistakes are made, but the intentions are completely honest.

Given the present climate of outsourcing, I've read that the future belongs to skilled trades; construction workers, electrical, HVAC, machine technicians. You can't outsource those jobs! The auto manufacturers are keenly aware of the crisis in skilled trades and are doing whatever they can to assure a future supply of quality technicians. If no one can repair their products, no one will buy them. Same with electronics. If the Yuan (chinese) currency gets revalued, the price of a lot of things will go up, possibly a lot - and I predict a renissance of repair, because it just won't be so easy to throw out stuff anymore.

Have you noticed all of the Spanish language printed and spoken in an auto store these days? Look around. These Mexicans seem to be among the only people who feel that self-sufficiency is important, and that don't mind getting their hands dirty. Most kids think that "radical modifications" to a car include screwing a fart can on the tailpipe and installing LED valve caps on the tires. People complain that the economy is bad and our standard of living is going down, while plunking $35 on a credit card to get an oil change (every 6000 miles, needed or not...). An able-bodied person should be able to do this in no more than an hour (including purchase, disposal, cleanup). If you aren't making $60K per year, it pays.

I had a friend who grew up in Detroit in the 60's and he told me that there were no tune-up shops there because everyone including his mother (seriously, HIS mother) could tune up their own car - because the big 3 gave literally hundreds of TONS of expensive equipment, motors, transmissions, entire cars, etc to the school system - a good investment - you could be ready to work the day you stepped foot on the factory floor!

Mechanics have never gotten any respect. That's why they are now called "automotive technicians".

Supposedly, really good engine diagnosticians at a dealer can make as much as high-end computer geeks! Somehow this word hasn't gotten out yet - as our society seems to respect only money. Consider this - would you rather have your daughter marry a "customer service representative" or a "car mechanic"? What if the car mechanic earns 2-3X as much money?

Not just "Mexicans" .... Hispanics. There are 40 countires south of the United States.

Haasman

No insult intended here. The vast majority of Hispanic people in my area are first or zeroeth (hmmm...) generation Mexican-Americans. I'm beginning to wonder if the real reason for the lax immigration policies is because those in the know are aware that the US would fall apart at this point without them.

A very big problem looms ahead in the service sector. A recent study I heard about lists the average age of a technician in this country as 50 years old. Looking around our shop, I would have to say that figure is right on the money. It is awfully tough to get a young person to want to plan a career in our type of work for a variety of reasons. The first is that it is work and it takes a high degree of skill and patience, and in the autobody sector we are regulated by what we can charge by the insurance companies. Where a mechanical shop can charge 80 to 90 dollars per hour, we are still at 40. I could go on but you can see the picture.

I have noticed that the majority of "bad quality" work of any type has been the responsibility of inexperienced and/or lazy workers. In the area of KY in which I live it seems like everyone wants something for nothing. We have one of the highest percentages (per capita) of law suits and people who are "on the dole". When I first moved in to this area I thought it was full of artists because people would say they "draw" when asked what they do for a living. I finally figured out they meant draw a check!

My parents just had their roof redone and, luckily, my dad checked it out before they left. They had put the roof vents on over the shingles without cutting a hole for the heat to escape from the attic. He complained about it and, I could not believe this, their answer was to take a hatchet and hack a hole in the roofing and then reinstall the vent! That is just laziness. They are in litigation now because my dad had the good common sense to get someone (a retired roofer) to check things out before they were paid. He found so many mistakes that it was pitiful. And the roof leaks.

Luckily, we do have an excellent independent here who knows what she is doing and knows Mercedes in and out (most models). She is not a bit afraid to tell you if she does not know the answer to a question - but she always finds the answer. She is fair and honest.

Well I agree and disagree.

I agree that setting expectations is important more so for the shop than for the owner of a vehicle especially for anything say, mechanical or electrical where there is some level of troubleshooting needed - Repair work basically. I don't think that it is too unreasonable of me to have the expectation that a shop will not damage or break thinks (such as my window controls) or to install a stereo and have it work reasonably well.

I also agree that as owners we shouldn't be ignorant about any type of service arrangement. With that said I think that shop owners and their sales/service people (who ever is communicating with the customer) have a responsibility, THE ultimate responsibility to set the right expectation. I do it, if I have a customer that is ordering several products together and I know that what they are trying to do wont work then I will let them know.

That really is the issue and summarizes why workmanship is going to hell in a hand basket - the responsibility has shifted and the public’s expectation is lower and many businesses capitalize on this.

I think that there is a difference between a customer that wants a simple stereo install with the expectation that their car won't be thrashed and the customer that goes in for an oil change then calls jiffy lube to complain that their muffler is still making that rattling sound.

I think that I have it right when I say (and generally speaking of course) that the public’s expectations have gone way down. People generally expect poor service and when they receive it they aren’t that surprised.

With all this said I have learned my lesson (still paying for it too). I will DIY as much as I can. If it doesn’t require specialized equipment then I will at least try… hell that is why I bought my 3 million and 2 piece craftsman tool set after all.

Thanks for all the feedback and responses.

I need to now go and sift through all these threads to see what I can find on how these console window switches impact other electrical functions in the car. This morning I realized that I had no gauge lights on the dash.

The good news (I think) is that the Mrs. called to let me know one of my taillights was out – so I am suspecting that when I was screwing around with the window controls yesterday that I blew a fuse…. I hope. ;)

Cheers,
Scott

I've read all the posts and have noted many good points. I can see both sides of the fence. My career spans many decades. I was an electronic technician for 10 years. I was a California licensed real estate agent for a couple of years. I went back into the Navy on special assignment for two years as a recruiter. I then went to work at a Mercedes dealership as an apprentice. I have been a Mercedes mechanic for 30 years having run my own shop for most of that time. During my stint as a recruiter I worked with high school counselors and was apalled at the fact that they directed anyone with an academic ability away from the automotive field if they were interested. The students were told that they should go to college, because they were too smart to be dumb old mechanics. What they were telling these kids is that they only wanted stupid people working on their personal cars. Todays cars are very complex with multiplexed wiring systems, and require sophisticated equipment and people to diagnose the problems. There are not enough skilled people to perform these tasks because of attitudes of the past. The end result is incompettance, and the consumer pays for misdiagnosis. There are alot of shops out there that just change parts and don't have a clue about proper diagnosis.

Now on the other side there are many good shops out there, but many of you are cheap bastards or really can't afford quality professional work. Many of you will spend thousands on stereos and wheels, but don't want to spend the money for top quality work. You take your car to the cheapest place in town and ***** about the work. Many of you should be driving Toyotas, because you are out of your league driving a Mercedes. I'm not casting aspersions on Toyota, because I think they are fine automobiles. It is just that they seldom need repair. If you are fortunate enough to find a good MB repair facility that is honest and reasonable, cherish the relationship and remember you need them more than they need you. If you are working or retired, you count on that income to pay the bills and so does that shop.

I've said my piece so fire away with dual salvos if you must.


Peter

I wouldn't mind paying top dollar for top-quality work. Unfortunately, my experience has been that the biggest difference between low-cost and high-cost work is only that the high-cost work costs more. High-Cost does not necessarily equal High-Quality. Just look at the dealerships' service departments. Arrogance, high-prices, apathy and mediocrity. The high-priced shops can disappoint just as well as the shop that caters to the "cheap bastard". How much time and money and frustration should we expend on our quest for the elusive shop that does quality work?

Likewise, we can buy parts through this site (FastLane) or we can go to the dealership (or lots of other places) and pay more. The parts are the same. Would we say that someone who buys from FastLane is a "Cheap Bastard", too?

For me, it's easier all around to just do it myself, know it's done right, buy new tools with some of the money I save and enjoy a sense of satisfaction for a job well done.

Also, in my experience, it costs NO more to maintain a Mercedes-Benz than it does a Toyota. Years ago, maybe. But not these days. And I don't think Toyotas are more reliable. Show me a 200K-mile '90 or '91 Toyota that looks and runs as well as our two Mercedes. A fifteen-year-old Mercedes-Benz is a car you can be proud of. A fifteen-year-old Toyota? I don't think so.

And forgive me, but it's INCOMPETENCE, not "incompettance". To mis-spell that word makes one look, well, incompetent. With all due respect, of course.

Have a nice day.

“Cheap Bastard”? What an insult. I resemble that remark. Yes, I am cheap, but I am not a bastard! Maybe I am the one who should buy a used Toyota (or domestic).

All kidding aside, I think Mercedes (and BMW and others) are much more expensive to maintain than a lot of other (domestic) cars. (My friend sold his 4 cylinder Camry with over $200,000 miles and never had other than normal maintenance.) The exchange rate is killing us on the parts side because the Euro is so strong and the Yen isn’t doing too badly either. Also, the better shops are more expensive and I know some that charge more for Mercedes than other cars. One owner said “because of the special tools and training” he charges $90 instead of $60 per hour. Any shop can screw up and I think a dealer is more likely than a high quality independent shop to do so. A run-of –the mill shop is no place to take a Mercedes, or any car you really love. A local shop that did work on my Bonneville did not want to work on my Mercedes.

Old cars can have numerous and expensive problems. If you like to DIY you can save a fortune. If you can’t do your own work and don’t have the money to throw around, maybe you are better off buying a new Toyota than a used Mercedes. Another alternative is to buy one a few years old, and certified if possible. An old used car is a crap shoot, especially if it has a lot of miles. Don’t buy one just to save money. It can wind up costing you more. Often, those of us who are too attached to our cars spend more than salvage (or resale) value to keep their car running right. That is okay but not sound economics. The emotional factor is what gets us to spend the extra money. I have spent as much on parts as I paid for my SL and it still needs a lot. If I had professional service I would have spent another $10,000. Maybe I just bought a bad one. Yeah, I throw parts at the car but often, diagnosis is more than the part. EG: fuel pump relay or fuel injectors. It costs as much to test as to replace (old K-Jetronic). I guess I can afford to do so because I don’t have to justify the labor. But there were precious few parts that didn’t need replacement anyway. Sorry for the rambling…

A quick word to end it all...
 

I love my car and will keep it running at almost any cost or until it falls apart, stolen, wrecked, burned, or blows up. Yeah they're expensive to maintain but I didn't buy it to save money on repairs or for the great gas mileage. I bought it because it is a beautiful piece of machinery.

Brewtoo,

I'm elated that you only found one misspelled word in my three paragraphs. I don't use spell check, and I miss a word now and then. Since you seem to be more concerned about spelling and punctuation than anyone else on this board, I suggest you go back through my post and pick out run on sentences, verb tense violations, punctuation errors, parallelism, predicate nominitive and predicate adjective violations, etc. I guess a dumb mechanic like me can't possibly help you with your MB problems, because im just to stupid to figure things out. By the way that im should be captalized, because it is a personal pronoun and a conjunction. Also the first to should have another o.

Steve,

I appreciate your candor. I appologize for my outburst, but one of my hot buttons got pushed. There are many good professional mechanics out there that do a fine job and deserve respect. I can also see the frustation that comes from dealing with mediocre mechanics. I totally agree with your observations about cars and mechanics. All I can say is try to find the good ones by referral and not rely on advertisement. I notice that you have a Euro model. I would suggest dumping it for a U.S. version. I have to go now. I'll wait for Brewtoo's criticism. Maybe if I'm lucky he"ll debate me on the history of Rome, the Punic Wars, the Crimean War, the Civil War, the Cromagnin Man or something else I know a little about since I can't spell.

Peter

In my years in the service dept. or parts dept., I can honestly say that this problem is kind've two fold. Many blame that the service dept. pushes the tech's to get the job done as fast as humanly possible while still charging full length of time (according to ALLDATA's labor rates) to increase profits, but you have to remember that that service writers are being pushed by customers wanting stuff done last week. And you have to admit alot of people wait to take their vehicles in till its on its last leg.
As for stereo/tint shops, most of these guys are rip of artist, and like someone else mentioned these guys hire young kids with no experiance. Car stereo's are easy nowadays with the plug-n-play harnesses; also Crutchfield has some great tech dept. that they offer with their purchases. As for complex wiring or specility wiring I'd suggest an auto electrician, you pay alittle more per hour but its worth it...... :vbac47679