Does any one still take pride in doing things right? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

lofat · #1 05-17-2005, 11:52 AM

By anyone - I mean specifically shops -

I have noticed this trend of half @$$ work quality increasing over the years, but it seems in the last year my experience with auto repair places, stereo shops, etc has gone from not that great to totally unacceptable.

I am not sure why it is like this, but I really have to say as I go through and upgrade my rides that if I can do it, I will. I think that I let my own fear of screwing things up stop me from attempting to fix or repair things, even know I may have instructions or support from this form. What I have learned is that shops always screw something up so, I am thinking that it is always in our (my) best interest to try to DYI first.

Case in point -

This past weekend I took my car to a somewhat reputable stereo shop in Hayward. These folks are pretty big compared to some of the other shops around. My request was pretty simple I thought, install a new head unit and rear speakers (that I supplied) new front speakers (purchased from them) and rewire the system to bypass the fader switch on the console. I also made sure to let them know that I wanted the power antenna to work either when the stereo was on, or if that couldn’t be done than at least make it so the antenna switch on the dash was functional.

First thing I noticed when I picked it up was a non op antenna. Great – now I have to schedule a repair appointment.

Next thing I noticed was that the rear speakers sounded like crap. They basically sound like they are under a couple inches of mud. When I removed the speaker cover I could see that they mis-drilled the holes so in the event it was the speakers that are the culprit for the poor sound quality (I bet not the case), returning them is now out of the question.

And finally the real kicker they totally f---ed up my console window switch for the drivers side window. I noticed this lovely surprise when I was coming into work this morning. The switch basically fell apart on me while I was driving. Fortunately I only had the rear window down – so I was able to use the switch on the door to get it up.

Not only am I ticked off at having to go through the hassle of bringing it back to these hacks, I have to wonder if they will take ownership for their errors and fix the window switch… The other question is will they even know how to do it?

What I am wondering is if this is repairable or if it is shot and a new switch needed. If a new switch is needed who ends up eating the cost for this? I mean they broke it – there is no question about it, but can I prove it? No – I suppose not.

As for the fate of my existing switch – basically the silver trim piece has come loose and the buttons are just kind of floating around in there not making contact or really doing much of anything.

I don’t know what to do at this point. All I know is that with my luck now that I am having window problems I can safely bet that our winter season will be over.

Should I just order a new (used) switch or try and score one from the junkyard or just leave these people to fix it?
If I end up doing (or paying for) the repair, do I just eat the cost? Do I bill them? Do I have any recourse as far as being compensated for my time or expense?
By drilling new holes in the speaker baskets did they screw the speakers up? Are they responsible for replacing them now if it turns out the speakers are bad?

I understand that there are no simple answers to these some of these questions – This thread is as much a rant as it is looking for answers.

I wonder if others here have had similar experiences
a) With shops breaking stuff
b) Getting shops to make good on fixing what they broke, or experiences of using legal means to be compensated from shops.

Any feedback, advice, or answers about my switch question are appreciated.

Thanks,

Scott

Boudreaux · #2 05-17-2005, 12:51 PM

Pay a visit to Judge Judy if you can't get it resolved. I think shoddy workmanship is usually a sign that the owner isn't present or the people they hire are inexperienced.

Yeah, like I'm going to let a 17 year old kid who's working a summer job at a car stereo shop work on my car. Nah go happin'!

Mike Murrell · #3 05-17-2005, 01:31 PM

lofat:

The problems you describe are not limited to the repair industry, but virtually all industries in the U. S.

Turn out the lights, the party is over.

brewtoo · #4 05-17-2005, 01:46 PM

Sorry to hear of your misfortune.

About a year ago I installed an Alpine stereo and replaced all four speakers. It was installed to function exactly like you described you wanted yours to function. It works beautifully.

Because I too can find no one capable of doing good work, I did the work myself. Whatever I might lack in knowledge or experience, I make up for BECAUSE I CARE. "Good Enough" is not acceptable. I want it done right; doesn't have to be perfect but has to be right.

It has been years since anyone besides me did any work on my automobiles. Unfortunately, it has gotten like they say, "If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself."

We used to have craftsmen. Now we have hacks. And not just in the auto industry...but everywhere. As the prices continue to rise, the quality continues to fall.

Oh yes, my favorite part is when someone does crappy work and then gets mad because you're not happy with it.

A great slogan for today: "You'll like our work or we'll whip your ass!"

IMHO, of course.

lofat · #5 05-17-2005, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewtoo

Whatever I might lack in knowledge or experience, I make up for BECAUSE I CARE.

well said!

Pete Geither · #6 05-17-2005, 03:20 PM

You can believe this or not, but the primary focus in running our shop is to get the job done right and not have the customer come back because we missed something or screwed something up. Everyone who works for us is on hourly compensation, versus flat rate. A lot of that probably has to do with me being a poor manager, but I never want a tech looking at the clock, worrying that he might be losing money. Alas, it is always me who loses money, but that goes back to my managerial problems. There are a vast majority of people out there who don't know a wheel from a tire who depend on our expertise to safely and competently repair their vehicles, and I take this very seriously. In all honesty we have never, in 22 years, done what you could call a perfect job,,,, but I have never seen the factories make a perfect car either, so if we can do as good as the mega corporations, I can live with it. It is getting harder and harder to make a profit in this business and I am sure everyone is getting squeezed to the breaking point. This leads to shortcuts and incompetent and underpaid help, but I swear I would close my doors before I would ever cheat or shortcut a customer. Just my .02.

raymr · #7 05-17-2005, 01:47 PM

I think the trend started in the DC area. Its probably because everyone wants their kids to become doctors and business executives. So very few people with talents go into the service industries. What you end up with is the bottom of the barrel, and it shows every time you want something worked on, delivered, cleaned, painted, etc.

I am an optimist though, maybe the new white-collar outsourcing thats going on will make people rethink their career choices and give service jobs a second look.

If I were you, I would just try to fix it all myself. Trace the wiring for the source of the bad sound. Get a used switch and pop it in. I wouldn't trust them to do it right the second time around, unless you actually get to meet the tech who will be working on it.

jrmd01 · #8 05-17-2005, 01:49 PM

Sorry to hear about your problems. This is exactly the reasons I try to do my own work. If I can't fix something, then I would let someone else do it.

For "aftermarket" work, I would stay and watch the installation. It's a hassel but I've noticed if you're around watching them work, they'll take that extra step to do things right.

If I were you, I'd take the car back immediately and talk to the manager or owner. Don't take "NO" for an answer. Worst case scenerio take them to small claims court.

BTW, I had a friend who owned a tinting / customs shop. He used to hire HS kids or kids just out of HS. They were somewhat experienced with installing various things, but NONE of them were certified. He hired these kids because they were cheaper to keep on staff.

GL

jrmd01@yahoo.com

#9 05-17-2005, 02:11 PM

It is indeed getting worse, but it just goes along with the general sociatal decadence we are seeing in this country. Morality and everything that goes along with it is going out the window FAST.

I'm with jrmd. If you want a job done right, you do it yourself. I am at a point in my life where I can afford to have someone else do my car work, but that is not an option because it is too hard to find someone that you can trust and that won't screw it up.

The only person I know that will do it right is my brother in law who is a tech at an MB dealer, but it is about 120 miles away.

Have a great day,

#10 06-13-2005, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boudreaux

Pay a visit to Judge Judy if you can't get it resolved. I think shoddy workmanship is usually a sign that the owner isn't present or the people they hire are inexperienced.

Yeah, like I'm going to let a 17 year old kid who's working a summer job at a car stereo shop work on my car. Nah go happin'!

Beautiful wheels on your car. I have the same wheels which I bought from my son-in-law. The raschal did tell me that two of them are warped. I am looking for a shop in or near Concord, NC which can repair them. I got to get rid of this vibration. Can anyone tell me where to get this done. I also need a fresh set of lug bolts for all four wheels and two of the center caps.

Thank you

dan howard

Steve Gutman · #11 05-17-2005, 03:10 PM

After continuous dissatisfaction with numerous shops I do it all myself. I can screw it up as well as the next guy. The shops are trying to get your car out a fast as possibe and they really don't care very much. To some of us, the car is more than a car.

If I break something the shop could break it too. Either way you have to pay. Also, it is practically impossible to prove the shop broke, tore, stained, scratched or damaged anything on your car. I had a shop change an intake manifold gasket on my old Bonniville. They did not use fender pads and scratched up the fenders badly. They denied it. You just never know what they will screw up. Some things, like alignment and tire balance are best left to those with the ewuipment, but even then I am suspect. I found a good shop for those things but te rest is up to me.

Boudreaux · #12 05-17-2005, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Gutman

After continuous dissatisfaction with numerous shops I do it all myself. I can screw it up as well as the next guy. The shops are trying to get your car out a fast as possibe and they really don't care very much. To some of us, the car is more than a car.

If I break something the shop could break it too. Either way you have to pay. Also, it is practically impossible to prove the shop broke, tore, stained, scratched or damaged anything on your car. I had a shop change an intake manifold gasket on my old Bonniville. They did not use fender pads and scratched up the fenders badly. They denied it. You just never know what they will screw up. Some things, like alignment and tire balance are best left to those with the ewuipment, but even then I am suspect. I found a good shop for those things but te rest is up to me.

After viewing last night a Japanese website dedicated to SL500 (R129) enthusiasts, I realize that my car is more than just a car. It is a social statement (I'm a thousand-aire), a durable, engineering marvel, and a work of art. Personally, I would pick the R129 body style over the R230.

Right now "Dieter" needs some work done and I am a little sketchy on letting anybody get their hands on him. The indy shop I usually go to takes care of the mechanical side and I take care of the small stuff. I would go berserk if a shop cracked/scratched/chipped the center wood console if they had to replace a window/seat heater/mirror switch. They would probably deny it and still want payment for the repair.

If anybody finds a good indy MB repair shop, stick with 'em.

jr6700 · #13 05-22-2005, 01:05 AM

In my years in the service dept. or parts dept., I can honestly say that this problem is kind've two fold. Many blame that the service dept. pushes the tech's to get the job done as fast as humanly possible while still charging full length of time (according to ALLDATA's labor rates) to increase profits, but you have to remember that that service writers are being pushed by customers wanting stuff done last week. And you have to admit alot of people wait to take their vehicles in till its on its last leg.
As for stereo/tint shops, most of these guys are rip of artist, and like someone else mentioned these guys hire young kids with no experiance. Car stereo's are easy nowadays with the plug-n-play harnesses; also Crutchfield has some great tech dept. that they offer with their purchases. As for complex wiring or specility wiring I'd suggest an auto electrician, you pay alittle more per hour but its worth it......

ksing44 · #14 05-22-2005, 07:49 AM

I am definitely willing to pay top dollar to get quality work from a skilled mechanic. I think it is critically important to make it clear that we value good work. That goes for all trades, where skilled technicians are essential for a high-quality finished job. When I find a good carpenter, plumber, electrician, or auto mechanic, I make it a point to thank them and gratefully pay them for their professional work. Once you find good skilled labor, I think you have to reward them by acknowledging their skill and paying them appropriately.

That said, it can be frustrating when you can't find a proud skilled professional to complete the work that you need. I definitely don't take my car to just any shop. I only go to my local dealer, who really does seem to do a good job, and to one local independent shop with two owners that are both capable and honest. My independent mechanics do seem to be busy with more dilapidated older cars, whose owners are just trying to save a dollar or two, but they really are skilled mechanics.

I know I am not adding much to what has already been said, but I feel passionately about this subject. I truly appreciate the highly skilled people that help me with my home and with my car. I am very particular about things, so I can tell when things are done well. I happily spend the money I make doing my job to secure the skills of an expert. I figure I get paid to do what I do best and then I can pay others to do what they do best. Doing what I do isn't better than doing what they do, so I don't think I should be rich and they should be poor. They should make a good living, if they are good at their job.

stevebfl · #15 05-22-2005, 10:22 AM

I read the first few posts of this thread a few days ago. It took a boring Sunday morning to read the rest.

I doubt I can do much to add to Peter's reply, as it contains as much truth as any of the posts.

Many have touched on the reasons for the situation as it exists and many have stated that it isn''t exactly as it appears. I believe the problem is basic economics. The most basic problem is the way technitians are paid. The first problim is that there is great disparity in the qualifications necessary at different levels of repair. The guy doing water pumps just doesn't need the brains, training or tooling that a drivability diagnostician needs. The mechanism for pay in most shops leaves the water pump tech being paid more than the genious. Most shops pay by piece work "flatrate" (or flatrape as it is refered to in the industry). A tech doing a 3 hour waterpump in a hour and a half gets duble pay while the diagnostician on a hard case may spend half a day for an hour or less. Good shops realize that they need the genious so they keep them making atleast as much as the laborer. They do that a couple ways. One of them is to keep a ceratin portion of their work the easy well paid stuff. This reduces the shop's overall capability to do the tuff stuff and places a certain amount of it in the hands of the laborer.

If the industry paid the diagnostician a relative pay versus the laboroer, cars would cease to be professioanlly repaired. You think costs are high now. Would you wish diagnostics to do be done like medicine. Personally I'll wager the good techs already do a better job than medicine in instances atleast as taxing. Would you wish all the CYA that is passed to insurance companies to be included in car repair.

Would you pay for no results? I've got a Volvo at the shop sent to me by another shop. It has an intermittant problem. The other shop has tickets for over 1200 dollars of parts changing and I have over 6 hours of designing tests, installing equipment, and driving the car waiting for the event. I must just be stupid at this point as it isn't solved yet. Is anything I've done worth paying for? Do I keep trying? Who is going to pay me? If I never find anything and the problem still exists do I work for free..... ever see a doctor do that? Our prices are set by expectation! Do I set up a research team and fix the car, maybe a 5-10,000 dollar exercise if it were a government project (actually maybe I should say 50-100,000).

BTW, I threw in a few mis spelled words and grammatical errors for those of you who do your best work shuffling paper. They also camouflage the real errors, after all those of us who do honestly get things done have better things to do than spell check.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Quit buying things made in china!	lietuviai	Off-Topic Discussion	190	11-04-2005 02:13 PM
Draft among other things...	H-townbenzoboy	Diesel Discussion	1	12-17-2003 11:19 PM
Things are getting bad...	mikemover	Off-Topic Discussion	5	11-10-2003 07:23 PM
My favourite things(!)	jjrodger	Mercedes-Benz SL Discussion Forum	1	06-21-2003 01:29 PM
Things to look for before leaving dealership?	taison	Tech Help	13	01-21-2000 10:36 PM