Can't seem to find anyone to service my a/c with R-12 in the Greater Toronto area. They tell me it is now "illegal". Is R-12 still available in the US? If so, can someone suggest a competent & honest shop that will not take my arm off for R-12 service (preferably less than $50/lb)? I would prefer NOT to convert to R-134a.

My vehicle is a 1992 300E. a/c works fine except takes longer to cool. I think it just needs a recharge / topup.

US cities I can access easily and would be willing to drive up to 1 hr from these points...
Buffalo, NY
Pt.Huron / Flint / Saginaw, MI
Toledo, OH
South Bend, IN
Boston, MA
Dallas / Ft.Worth, TX

Thanks in advance,
ARVY
1992 300E (R-12)
1984 190D 2.2 (R-134a)

I've heard this story before - no R-12 in Canada.

If you can drive across the border to a near-by U. S. city, go for it.

I wonder if there's some U. S. law that would prohibit a U. S. tech from feeding R-12 into an auto with Canadian plates?

I don't remember reading that in the Macs manual that I read in preparation for the 609 certification, but there could be regional rules that I'm unaware of.

I suspect that one of our Canadian members can shed light on this.

If you do hire a shop on this side to "top it off", be prepared to pay big $$$.

What you pay for R-12 as a diyer mechanic and what you pay a shop here for it are 2 different things. A few weeks ago, I could by the 12 oz. cans for about $26-$27. 30 lbs. cyls. of course offer more economy of scale.

I've heard of shops charging $100 - $150 a lbs for R-12.

__________________
Mike Murrell
1991 300-SEL - Model 126
M103 - SOHC
"Fräulein"

I just bought 4 cans of R-12 from the local Chevy dealer for $22 a can. Plenty available on eBay for about $20 a can, plus shipping.

EPA Test to get your own license to buy R12 legally in the US. Section 609 is the automotive section.

__________________
Norm in NJ
Next oil change at 230,000miles

ive got the same problem but larger.i currently own 3 r12 benzs with inop a/c.r134 conversion is looking very probable now but i have some reservations after reading on this site

Have my EPA609 certification (used to live in Michigan) and bought some R12 from a guy on eBay a while ago. Go get your certification and have the R12 shipped to a border town (as you listed in your original post).

If you just need a bit, I have one can of R12 and I'm located in Oakville. I might be convinced to part with it if the price were right

Neal

__________________
'83 300SD 335,000km (207k) mi SOLD
'87 560SL 163,000km (101k mi) SOLD
'86 300SDL 356,000km (220k mi) SOLD
'92 500SEL 250,000km (155k mi) SOLD
'90 300SL 140,000km (87k mi) SOLD
'01 S430 260,000km (161k mi) SOLD
'03 SL500 167,000km (104k mi) SOLD
'07 S550 4MATIC 235,000km (146k mi) SOLD
'07 GL320 CDI 4MATIC 348,000km (215k mi)
'13 GL350 BlueTec 4MATIC 170,000km (105k mi)
'14 SL550 72,000km (43k mi)

I have 4 cars w r12 and got my 609 cert and bought a case of r12for $248 a case ppd. and then arranged with my local refrig guy to service the cars. no problems and the cars run nice and cold. Check if r12 will go across the border.

__________________
71 220D 169K wrecked
83 240D 118K sweet 4 speed
91 350SDL (one of the 60% good engines) 156K
84 300d (loaner to my sister) 189K
79 300SD (partswagen)
86 420SEL partswagen
70 220d (partswagen)
68 280s GASSER!!! under construction now
85 300sd 310K miles winter beater car retired
93 300d 2.5 turbo 168K wife's car
83 280SL euro 5 speed 155K
69 250S newest project 54K

who knows the Canadian Customs people might be doing full body cavity searches these days....

__________________
Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
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Section 609 MVAC Certified
---------------------
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

i just bought a can of freon stuff that was compatible with r12.

you can just ad it in... got it right off ebay..and says its legal

beware guys ! there is a lot of stuff being sold as r12 in the states with dubious origin and purity.check this link.http://www.autoacforum.com

There was a guy on ebay a few weeks ago selling tire inflator as R-12.

Familiarize yourself with the tops of R-134A cans. The top of an R134A can is distinctly different than an R-12 can. You'll see people on ebay selling R-134A cans that have been painted/labeled as R-12.

__________________
Mike Murrell
1991 300-SEL - Model 126
M103 - SOHC
"Fräulein"

Larry Bible has some well-formed opinions as to why you should always seek out and use R12 to service your R12 system. And, if you live in a large market where R12 is available at competitive prices, and the climate requres you to use AC much of the time, and it needs to perform with maximum efficiency, his opinions should guide your decision on whether to convert over to 134a. That said, if your climate is fairly mild and your system is in pretty good shape and you could be satisfied with less than perfect efficiency when compared with R12 performance, then you might want to consider a conversion to 134a.

I did my old sedan two years ago using the most basic "EPA simplified method." This involved little more than removing the remaining R12 (not much, big leak) finding and fixing the leak, replacing the original dryer with a 134a compatible unit, charging with ester oil and 134a with a "conditioner," which I have no clue to what it did/does for my system. I did not flush out the old oil because I was persuaded that the two oils would not mix and the old mineral oil would simply migrate to the system low point where it would sit without causing any problems. The ester oil was billed as being OK with both mineral oil and the 134a-specific PAG oil. It's the PAG oil that apparantly is so harmful when mixed with mineral oil. That's what I was told, and so far, so good.

The results have been entirely satisfactory. My cooling is not noticably less efficient than before and I have observed no decline in cooling or other problems with any components in the system, so far. I was advised that my old hoses would leak the 134a, and other maladies were in my future. I've seen none of that. Many have cautioned that time will take its toll and I'm going to be disappointed eventually. Maybe so, but I have been happy so far. If I lived in Houston it might be different. Hundred degree heat and 98% humidity are entirely different matters and I suspect that a conversion would be far more problematic in those conditions. However, in Canada's milder summer climate I would expect the best chances for satisfactory results.

Finally, I have read that R12 is dropping in price and now competes favorably with 134a. So far I have seen no such thing, and this thread with $100-$150/pound prices would seem to bear that out. $150/pound for R12 (even $30/pound for license holders) is a far cry from $4/can for 134a at WalMart. Can anyone point me toward that cheap R12? I have a sweet 350SL that still uses it.

All that said, others will have different opinions and each should be considered with care when making a decision.

FWIW

230/8

230/8:

I too have not witnessed falling R-12 prices, at least not in cans. The 30 lb. cyl. may have come down some, but in my opinion, not that much. R-12 remains an expensive refrigerant.

refrigerantsales.com is a cheap as I've seen, excluding the deals on ebay that I would personally be very leary of.

__________________
Mike Murrell
1991 300-SEL - Model 126
M103 - SOHC
"Fräulein"

has anyone considered the "autofrost"replacement for r12?from the test reports ive read this looks like a good option with no drawbacks other than slightly higher hi side pressure at high ambient temps(+100f) which we dont encounter ever here in southern ontario

Autofrost is a blend of many different refrigerants.

55% R-22
41% R-142b
4% isobutane

I vote for duracool. It is an HC refrigerant, made up from a blend of propane and butane. It cools as well as R-12 and actually uses a lower head pressure than R-12.

__________________
95 E320 Cabriolet, 169K