I have learned there are metal replacements for the three plastic upper guides: are these good or bad?
I prefer a replacement chain which has a rivited closure (master link), but all the ones I have found have a master link with C-clips; the one shown in the factory manual has C-clips as well: good or bad?
I found a local shop; place looked nice and clean;floors painted white, etc. so I asked about changing my chain and the three upper guides. They wanted to change the cam sprockets also; total about $600 labor, about $300 parts, incl. tensioner. Then they stated, "We don't usually work on cars that old, but..." well, that blew it for me.

No reason to change the gears unless they're really worn, which is usually not the case. The metal guides are something pretty new -- manufacturer is Meyle I believe.

Find another shop, they don't want your business. Price ain't bad though.

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

The metal guides are an interesting development. I wondered why the arm in the 116/117 went from all metal to metal with a plastic liner. Noise? Or something else?

What would be better in the oil pan - plastic or metal? Or is the wear at such a microscopic rate that it really doesn't matter?

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86 560SL
With homebrew first gear start!
85 380SL
Daily Driver Project

http://juliepalooza.8m.com/sl/mercedes.htm

I think the idea is that the metal rails won't break.

The original rails are a fiberous material with an aluminum backing/mount. The replacements are all plastic.

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Regards

Warren

Currently 1965 220Sb, 2002 FORD Crown Vic Police Interceptor

Had 1965 220SEb, 1967 230S, 280SE 4.5, 300SE (W126), 420SEL

ENTER > = (HP RPN)

Not part of the in-crowd since 1952.

Is the metal guides only available for 420? Is it availble to say 500sel or 560sel?

If they were smart, they would have used metal ones from the factory, unless they were unknown back then.

There have been several threads on this subject; the nutshell as I recall was that for 116/117 engines (according to people whose profit and loss rest on this), that the clips are at least as good as rivets. Installed properly, they will not pop off; they in no way have anything to do with the strength of the chain, the links and "rods" bear all of that. There was, however, another opinion of using clips on a diesel engine.

__________________
86 560SL
With homebrew first gear start!
85 380SL
Daily Driver Project

http://juliepalooza.8m.com/sl/mercedes.htm

About the use of nylon instead of metal in the first place - the reason I think the decision was noise related was because the nylon-toothed cam gear in a SBC are (or at least were) made this way for this reason. As a young gearhead, replacing the gear with all metal, along with the cam was one of the first things you did, especially if your engine was old anyway and your cam was lumpier. My 0.02: I'd rather live with a little more noise.

__________________
86 560SL
With homebrew first gear start!
85 380SL
Daily Driver Project

http://juliepalooza.8m.com/sl/mercedes.htm

I work with industrial engines with huge timing chains (picture in your mind a 6-row, 8-row, or 10-row chain weighing 500 pounds), and they all have master links held by clips, some of them have hundreds of thousands of hours, so I am confortable with this; it's just that I hear conflicting ideas about this situation in the Mercedes V-8. As for the plastic upper guides, I understand the problem is they get brittle, and a piece breaks off and gets between the chain and sprocket with disastrous results. Mine have lasted 20 years and 148,000 miles, so I can't bee too critical, but I fear an engine wreck and I am opening it up.
Thanks for all the comments. I'll see what's in there soon and report back.

No, at one time, all Mercedes chain guides were metal.