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  #1  
Old 03-27-2006, 11:33 AM
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Question 190e Hesitation and Stalling After Cold Start

Recently, my 1991 190e 2.3 started to hesitate and even stall after a cold start, when I'd put my foot on the gas to pull out of my driveway and for the first minute or so afterwards.

The car starts right up and idles fine, cold or hot and this does not happen at all after it's warmed up.

I was thinking it might be an enrichment problem, since it feels like I'm trying to drive a carbureted car without a choke after a cold start. The engine just stumbles and wants to die when I hit the gas.

The CIS temp sensor and the air temp sensor (at the air cleaner) were replaced about two years ago, in an attempt to solve a different problem.

Any ideas on where to start looking?

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  #2  
Old 03-27-2006, 07:49 PM
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Could Be The Ignition Control Module

Hi there irieite,

From your description, the problem you are having is exactly like what happened to my car last month.
In my case, it's the Ignition Control Module that failed.
I swapped with a used unit and ...Voila...problem solved....

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=146817

Hope this helps...

Cheers..
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  #3  
Old 03-27-2006, 09:59 PM
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I don't think its that because you run fine all other times.
It sounds more like a fuel pressure problem.
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  #4  
Old 03-28-2006, 04:48 PM
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It doesn't really seem like a fuel starvation problem, (perhaps an air overabundance problem? ) because after the initial throttle tip-in, so long as it doesn't stall, and after it hesitates, it'll take off and accelerate just fine. If you've ever driven away after a cold start, in a carbureted car without a functional choke, this is EXACTLY how it feels.

Again, this ONLY happens right after a cold-start, it doesn't have to be cold outside for this to happen, (although that exaggerates it) just after the car has sat for several hours and has cooled down completely.

A little background on the car:

Following the advice of a "Mercedes mechanic", (he said he used them all the time, with great success, to replace the crappy stock coils in these cars) I put an MSD Blaster ignition coil on the car about 2 years ago. The old coil was bad and caused the car to miss intermittently at idle and during acceleration, after being warmed up. The coil solved the problem and the engine had been running great since then. The plugs are less than two years old, with about 15k miles on them. Cap, rotor and plug wires were all replaced about 3 1/2 years ago.

In the past three years, pretty much the entire fuel system on this car has been gone through. The fuel distributor was replaced with a rebuilt BOSCH unit 6 months ago, the fuel pump and filter was replaced about a year ago, and the fuel accumulator and regulator about 3 years ago. It had been running quite well with all that work being done.

I'm wondering.. The last time I had the airflow meter off, (months before this started happening) I noticed that the idle air hose coming off the bottom of it was a little on the hard side and kind of loose around the fitting. However, it had been running fine now for months since I noticed that. Would a small air leak from that, possibly cause it to be running a bit too lean (beyond the correction ability of the EHA) after a cold start, but not noticeable after being warmed up? I don't think that I'm going to get any meaningful DC or current readings, as the system is running in open loop at that point.

Remember, it starts up and idles fine, after the cold start. It's just when I try and take off from a stop or hit the gas at a very low speed, for the first minute or so afterwards, that it stumbles, hesitates and wants to die. After the engine warms up, or after a successive (warm or hot) start, no problems.

Any other ideas?
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2000 c280 Sport (looks like an upgrade, feels like a downgrade)
1991 190e 2.3 (sold)
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  #5  
Old 03-28-2006, 06:22 PM
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i'd change that hose and see if that makes a difference.
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  #6  
Old 03-28-2006, 06:31 PM
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I wonder if your coolant temp sensor is faulty?

Go to -> SEARCH

Key in -> Coolant+Temp+Sensor and search TITLES ONLY. Lots of discussion on this part.
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  #7  
Old 03-28-2006, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Murrell
I wonder if your coolant temp sensor is faulty?

Go to -> SEARCH

Key in -> Coolant+Temp+Sensor and search TITLES ONLY. Lots of discussion on this part.
As mentioned in my original post, I changed the CIS coolant temp sensor about two years ago. I supposed it could've gone bad.. But, I'd say the cold start injector is definitely working, since it starts right up on a cold morning. Wouldn't this mean that the CIS temp sensor is sending the right signal? Or is there another coolant temp sensor that you're refering to?
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  #8  
Old 03-28-2006, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simmo300e
i'd change that hose and see if that makes a difference.
I do plan on changing that hose anyway, just wondering if there's anything else I should look at before I order just that one part. Especially since I doubt the hose has gotten any worse since I last looked at it a few months ago and this problem has just recently appeared. Besides that, I'm trying to cut down on just throwing parts at this car, regardless of their cost.
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  #9  
Old 03-29-2006, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irieite
As mentioned in my original post, I changed the CIS coolant temp sensor about two years ago. I supposed it could've gone bad.. But, I'd say the cold start injector is definitely working, since it starts right up on a cold morning. Wouldn't this mean that the CIS temp sensor is sending the right signal? Or is there another coolant temp sensor that you're refering to?
Your original post referred to a "CIS temp sensor". Never heard of it. Maybe you meant "coolant temp sensor"...whatever.

Coolant temp sensor - in most cases - located at back of cyl. head. If this is what you changed, I'll assume it's performing as intended.
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  #10  
Old 03-29-2006, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Murrell
Your original post referred to a "CIS temp sensor". Never heard of it. Maybe you meant "coolant temp sensor"...whatever.

Coolant temp sensor - in most cases - located at back of cyl. head. If this is what you changed, I'll assume it's performing as intended.

Apparently, there are two coolant sensors. The one I replaced was labeled as being for the "CIS Injection" and can be seen here:

http://63.89.49.212/mercedesshop/sophio/wizard.jsp?partner=mercedesshop&clientid=catalog.mercedesshop&baseurl=http://catalog.peachparts.com/&cookieid=1Q0133BYD1RM0REJXO&year=1991&make=MB&model=190-E-004&category=C&part=Water+Temp.+Sensor&appEngines=12-059352-

Along with the "K-Jetronic" water temp sensor, which I have not yet replaced.

Is there a test I perform on the "K-Jetronic" sensor to see if it's bad before I replace it? It's $65, so I don't want to replace it without knowing that it's bad.
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  #11  
Old 03-29-2006, 11:10 PM
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Just looking around the cylinder head, I could not find anything that looked like the "K-Jetronic" water temp sensor as described in my previous post. I went ahead and ordered the idle air valve hose in question. With any luck it'll get here by the weekend, and I'll give an update on whether or not it worked. Otherwise, it'll be until next weekend before I get a chance to replace it and find out. Stay tuned.. heh

In the mean time, I'd appreciate any input or experiences of the like.
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  #12  
Old 04-02-2006, 08:23 PM
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OK, I changed the hose. The old one wasn't as bad as I thought.. I think the real culprit might have been a sticky idle control valve. Yesterday I cleaned it out with carb cleaner and lubed it with WD-40. The car starts right up, idles fine and takes off without hesitation after the first start of the day. I'll know for sure whether or not it's "fixed" after a few days and I'll post another update.
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1991 190e 2.3 (sold)
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  #13  
Old 04-04-2006, 01:41 PM
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Well this morning when I left for work it was hesitating again after the cold start. So, it must be something else.. I think I'll run a bottle of Techron though it and change the plugs, since it's been a couple of years since they were replaced. It's just really strange, since it only does it for about the first minute after a cold start. After that, it runs great.

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