Mb Coolant
 

Someone please explain to me the difference between MB COOLANT and anything else. Surely, the engine/cooling components on an MB are not that different then everything else.
Please....Facts not personal opinions.....

The MB type fluid is supposed to be the same as Zerex G-05. I found this 1/2 the price of MB at O'reilly's.

There has been a lot of speculation and opinion that non-MB fluid deteriorates plastic, notably the plastic neck of radiators. I have never seen this proven, there are a lot of plastic parts in engines and on radiators of cars with ordinary radiator fluid from the factory, and I think the real reason that radiator necks break on 107's and the like is a combination of a short, tight upper hose and bad motor mounts.

Just my observation, but the MB/Zerex type fluid seems to contain quite a bit of "salts" that may (may) plug up pinhole leaks. It really cakes up on leaks.

I really can't imagine that a vehicule and its combine parts made 20-30 years ago and designed years before that, can be damaged by todays new and improved coolants with all those intervening years of R&D. Does MB use special plastic, rubber, aluminum or cast iron?

My 300SD has used MB coolant since new (full service records from several Mercedes and Ferrari Dealers) and my 24 year old original radiator is in great shape. MB coolant is cheap. If your going to second guess Mercedes engineers you might want to consider another brand of car. Honda owners typically modify their cars beyond the original factory specs :)

Nobby says, "Surely, the engine/cooling components on an MB are not that different then everything else." Who knows? Radiators are aluminium and copper, which is different.

I presume you own a Mercedes Benz. The car originally cost more than your average everyday car. If you have a cooling related failure, it will cost some money to repair the car. So I offer up the following simple logic.

Why would you question the manufacturer's recommended coolant? It's cheap. The coolant is only changed every two years. You are trying to save what 5 bucks by going with something else.

There are numerous detailed papers on the internet that discuss the chemistry in detail.

Steve

Use anything but DEXCOOL and you should be okay. If you don't believe me, go read the back label on the Zerex G-05 bottle!

So PAGE62 is more of an expert than the MB factory engineers!
Ridiculous advice considering that the cost of the recommended fluid is so cheap.

Seems to me that unless someone has a situation in which he has access to numerous observations over a period of years, their opinions on subjects like
the effects of non-approved coolants are pure opinion and speculation. I have read posts on other lists from MB only shop owners with 30 years experience and observation of thousands of cars that emphatically state that use of non-MB approved coolant causes problems in MB cars, period.

I choose to spend the extra 5 bucks or whatever it is and follow the factory recommendations.

Steve

Read my post carefully. It was merely in response to Nobby's comment. I said you "should" be okay -- I wasn't making a recommendation of any sort. I didn't say you "will" be okay...or "I recommend any old stuff." For the most part, I was trying to warn folks away from using DEXCOOL in their Mercedes.

However, consider this quote from the makers of Prestone: "Prestone® Extended Life Antifreeze/Coolant is compatible with ANY antifreeze/ coolant – regardless of color – for use in ALL makes and models of cars and light duty trucks." So at worst, you "should" be okay using it.

Having said all that, I'm running Zerex G-05 in my 450SL. This is what I use and what I always recommend when people ask.

I just do not believe that O'reilly's has G-05 coolant. I've looked - are you sure the stuff you got there says G-05 on the bottle or just something about extended life, etc.

What exactly is the brand if you remember. I've only found the G-05 at Napa and Pep Boys in my area at $11.99/gal.

I found it on their website. I went in there and not even the counterman knew that they had it until I pointed it out to him, in a corner of the store. This was about two months ago.

I came away with a wrong impression of PAGE62's post. Glad he didn't say what I thought he said.

As to the language on bottole. I would say think Marketing and Legalize.


Steve

Hey, rchase, no need to talk down to me I was just posing a question that ,SEEMS to me, to have literally hundreds of opinions but no real facts.
I use MB coolant, powersteering fluid and whatever else is "recommended" based on everyone's opinion and of course MB recommendations I just want to know why.
By the way, I drive a '93 Honda Civic daily and it is, funny enough, still stock.

You'd be surprised what the bottle says. It shows a photo corroded water pump caused by using DEXCOOL!

Here's a summary from the Zerex website (bear in mind that G-05 is a HOAT):

"IAT, or Inorganic Additive Technology, is the traditional green coolant found in most older vehicles. This solution offers fast-acting corrosion protection, although the additives are quickly consumed, exposing the cooling system to possible corrosion problems if not changed regularly.
OAT, or Organic Acid Technology, is the formula found in DEX-COOL®, and is usually the antifreeze/coolant of choice for VW and many Japanese/Asian vehicles. This updated formula is engineered to offer long-life corrosion protection. The downside of OAT is it is not compatible with other types of coolant (IAT and HOAT). In fact, Ford, DaimlerChrysler and others say not to use this type of coolant in their newer models.
HOAT, or Hybrid Organic Acid Technology, is found in newer Ford, Chrysler and Mercedes vehicles. Using the very best aspects of both IAT and OAT, HOAT is a very protective, long-life coolant."

One final note: Zerex G-05 states very clearly on the bottle that it is approved for use with Mercedes vehicles, and that DEXCOOL is not...

Nice...Page62. Now we are getting somewhere. That is more like "facts" (albeit, self serving, perhaps, for Zerex ). Sounds better than "because" or "thats just the way it is" or "my mechanic said so".

Actually, these are about as close to "facts" as you'll get. Zerex also sells a DEXCOOL product, as well as a traditional green antifreeze (for those on a budget). I think they are merely trying to match their products to the correct end users...

That said, I'm not sure what chemistry Prestone uses. But they do claim "extended life"...so perhaps it's a HOAT as well. Who knows?

Found the link to more than you ever want to know about MB Coolant.

https://mbwholesaleparts.com/StarTun...iFreeDec04.pdf

Steve

just cruizin threads
 

I'm a first time MB owner as of two weeks ago....1992 300ce (m104) 83K mi

Thought i'd investigate a little....TOO bad that Link to Mercedes Website doesn't work on my PC....Anti Freeze infomation shouldn't be a mystery. I'm waiting for my Shop manual from MB. Maybe the mystery will continue? I topped off my Engine coolant with the green stuff. It didn't explode so I guess I'm lucky so far!!!

ron 5:01pmPDT

If I were looking to buy your MB and saw ''green stuff'' I would have to think twice. If someone got cheap on the coolant who knows where else you went cheap? I just flushed out green stuff on my 190. I want my cooling system to last. The heater core in the 190 is a big job the replace.

The Zerex G-05 = MB coolant
 

Generally. most older MB's can very successfully use the QUALITY green stuff with no problems: you just have to remember to drain, flush and change out every 2-3 years, depending upon how many miles you actually drive, whether the fluid stays clean, no leaks or usage, etc.

New MB's typically REQUIRE the MB coolant/G-05. Using it in older MB's is no problem if the cooling system doesn't have any problems to begin with & you remember to drain, flush, refill with plain water, drain & flush again, etc. BEFORE changing over to the new stuff.

I use it in my '91 420SEL, both my motorcycles, the SVX. Everything stays clean, no sediment, no leaks, no problems. When the green stuff in the 1973 450SE is two years old, when the green stuff in the '87 F250 has 10K or so miles on it I'll change them over to G-05, too.

I'm not going to drain off and throw away (WHOOPS! I MEANT "re-cycle") 2 gallons of coolant (each) with less than a year's use.

I should also mention that I have NEVER had a cooling system repair associated with coolant failure. I don't have overheating problems: I replace my hoses before they are worn out or fail. I fix/replace a water pump, thermostat, temp sensor, before they fail. I look for any evidence of corrosion or leaks.

I have replaced a cracked radiator (plastic upper hose outlet on the SVX) at 122K miles.:silly:

Cheers!

You have to love these ambiguous pronouncements. Generally, older can use the Green Stuff. Really? What is older? Where is the dividing line? What is Newer? Why is this so? Finally, exactly on what, other your limited number of sample cars, do you base these conclusions?

Each year has a list of factory approved fluids. Why not go with what the factory dicates?

Steve

I don't know about plastic components in the SVX radiator but cracked plastic header tanks are the exact failure mode when MB radiators use the "green stuff" for extended periods. If you were using the "green stuff" in the SVX cooling system you may have experienced a cooling failure due to incorrect coolant.

I agree with Softconsult, as far as maintenance schedules and procedures I'm going with factory recommendations over internet advice.

Actually, whether you use the green stuff or the factory coolant, the required factory replacement interval for coolant is every 3 years anyway.

It was not my intention to "talk down to you". There's lots of information on the web about Mercedes coolant if you want to take a moment to google it for your own personal research. While there might be "some guy" that claims to have knowledge about a subject before I start experimenting with my car I prefer to have more "real" information. Mercedes Benz Engineers specify Mercedes coolant in the cars that they designed. Until I see some lab tests done by real engineers (not just "some guy" on his personal vehicle) that support some other products I will only put the Mercedes products in my car. There is not that big of a price difference and the risk is not worth a few bucks of savings.

I as well used to drive Honda's before I knew better and before they became fashionable with the NOPI crowd. I just got tired of having to "toss them in the trash" when they reached 275K. Now I just find them to be a buzzy annoyance on the interstate going under 55mph and causing traffic problems to try and eeek out an additional .0005mpg because the owners are concerned abouy fuel costs.

There are a lot of people out there that are what I call "stupid cheap". A perfect example of stupid cheap is putting the green stuff in your radiator because you want to save a couple of bucks on a bottle of coolant. When your radiator neck breaks off in your hand and you have to replace it you spend a lot more money than that couple of bucks that you saved buying the green stuff.

Don't get me wrong I'm not the person who rolls up into the Mercedes service department to pay inflated prices for inferior work. I do however value my dollar and my vehicle. Balance is the key to many things in the world including keeping one of the best engineered cars in the world on the road in an economical manner.

"Older", IM (very) HO w/b, say 126 Series S-Class...
 

... & before. "Newer" w/b 140 Series & on...

You know: back in the OLD days when anti-freeze was just that: anti-freeze.

The cracked plastic radiator at the upper tube is, has, and will remain a manufacturing/design weakness (note: I didn't say "defect") on the SVX. Actually, there were other issues re: the radiator that were much more serious that had to do with the tranny cooler section, especially on the initial (1992) models. The cracking had more to do with vibration vs. corrosion. A radiator replacement at 12 years & 125K is not going to send me into paroxysmal depression.

I also seriously doubt the Subaru suppliers used the same plastic as MB. Maybe, but unlikely.

That Mercedes once used oil that was not SG or SM (or 502.11(3)a(2)iii) rated, or even SYNTHETIC, and transmission fluid that was not equal to Dexron III/Mercon, etc. does not mean that using BETTER more sophisticated fluid products in "older" (there's that word, again!) MB's is not a good idea.:eek:

Cheers!

p.s. My 450SE has a METAL expansion tank and the original radiator.

Mb Coolant
 

The full link that softconsult posted is below:

https://www.mbwholesaleparts.com/StarTuned/pdfs/AntiFreeDec04.pdf

MB coolant article
 

Whoa!!:eek:

Did I read that right??

Does page 13 of that article state that MB says 15 years is a safe interval for those late models listed in the article?

Show of hands. Who would NEVER change their AF/coolant (assuming you owned one of them for less than 15 years)?:confused:

cruizen the threads-revisited
 

It's that time again...different vehicle (now a 1991 300ce) lost the prior car in a accident. So time to refresh the coolant!

A link which appears to complement the above reference may be found here: http://www.underhoodservice.com/Article/39651/correcting_coolant_confusion.aspx
A partial cut and paste is below...
Extended Life Hybrid Coolants
Silicated Hybrid Organic Acid Technology (HOAT) antifreezes, which are sometimes referred to as “G-05” formula coolants, contain organic acids in combination with one or more inorganic inhibitors. The most common inhibitor is silicate. The addition of silicates increases corrosion protection for aluminum engines, radiators and heater cores, and helps protect the water pump against erosion wear. Silicated hybrid OAT coolants are specified for 2001 and up DaimlerChrysler vehicles, 2002 and up Ford trucks and SUVs, 2003 and up Ford passenger cars, and 1985 and up Mercedes, BMWs, Volvos and Mini Coopers. “Phosphated HOAT” coolants are used in Asian vehicles (Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Kia and Hyundai) because Asian vehicle manufacturers prefer phosphated organic acid coolants and do not like silicated organic acid coolants. European vehicle manufacturers, on the other hand, generally specify silicated HOAT coolants and do not like phosphated organic acid coolants. That’s why some antifreeze suppliers offer different HOAT formulas for these applications.

My thoughts: Distilled water and a G05 mixture appears to be an acceptable anti-freeze for those folks who live in a "hard water" region.

ron_of_orange
7/28/2009

additives are different
 

The glycol part of the antifreeze is the same, the addivies vary depending on what manufactureres think is important for corrosion protection and tracking element to see if there is a leak into the lubricating oil from a blown head gasket and such. Here is a small comparison of different coolants and their additive elements.

MBZ Coolant
 

Most 2004 and newer MBs have a silicate bag in the expansion tank that releases replenishing silicates over time...hence the long change intervals. Quite nifty really and other manufacturers could take a page from this. Mark

Zerex G-05.

Just a note on G-05. I found some at NAPA. So far that is the only place I have seen it in a while

How do you guys dispose of old coolant? I brought my old engine oil to Autozone or O'reilly but they don't accept coolant.

Just use what the manual tells you to use. Just because something is more advanced does not necessarily mean that it's safe to use in your vehicle, because the more advanced item was engineered to be used in a more advanced vehicle, which are constructed using a far wider selection of materials now; if something was re-engineered, it's likely it was done to address issues that didn't exist previously.

Also, cracked/seperated plastic radiator heads are a common thing in just about every vehicle that uses them these days; granted, that's more an inferior parts issue than anything else.

My MB has the green stuff in it and I am going to change it here at home. I am going to get the Zerex coolant.

Do I just need to simply drain the radiator, then refill with the Zerex? Not sure how to flush it myself, unless I just leave the drain out and pour some water through it to get out as much as I can?

Also, I live in an area where it dont get below 5°, even in the harshest cold weather outbreaks... would one gallon be enough, then then refill the rest of the way with distilled water? (BTW, its a W126 with the M103 engine).

Thanks.

I have the flu and you guys are making my head hurt. :mad:

Group 1: Please compose sentences carefully and unambiguously.

Group 2: Please read posts carefully and avoid accusations in favor of clarifications.

If I have to write another post like this, you all will have to change your antifreeze, or else! :eek:

You'll have a drain plug on the block, If I remember correctly, under the exhaust header. Another drain plug on the bottom of the radiator, on the right side underneath.

I'm not sure on the capacity of the cooling system on the M103, but asuming the total capacity is around 9-10 litres, a gallon should be fine.

Cooling capacity on M103 in a W126 is exactly 3 gallons. Dunno about other cars.


They will if you dump it in their oil recycling tank! Just pretend you've got oil in there, and walk to the back and dump it in!

I have often debated if my doing this was wrong, but I have decided that they have to separate that crap anyway, and obviously they have to do it in a manner that allows for water and other liquids being safely removed from the oil. I'm sure its a pain for them to do, but hey...... They sell anti-freeze and don't take back the waste? WTF is that BS?

So yeah, I just dump it in with the oil. I sometimes mix it in with my used oil. The one time they said anything, I said "cracked head gasket" and they just said "oh".

Seriously, what do they expect us to do, drink it?

1. MB coolant was tested in the MB engines, the others were not.
2. Yes, there are different alloys used in MB engines than used in those of other cars.
3. Increased corrosion will lead to earlier leaks, like at the water pump shaft. MB water pumps cost several hundred dollars. I would rather leave the old stuff in there than try to save $4.95 with a bottle of Pep Boys' finest.

What are these different alloys, and how does the coolant affect them?

I don't work in the Daimler test lab so I won't venture a guess. I can look up the mailing address from the engine plant for you if you'd really like ot know.

So how do you know the alloys are different? I happen to be quite familiar with all the materials used in the automotive industry. I also keep up with emerging technologies used in automotive materials. Pretty much all manufacturers use similar alloys in the cooling systems. There are few surprises when it comes to alloys that contact the cooling system. Coolant technology is not that exact a science.

is it OK to use Dexron III in my 722.329?

Obviously I don't know their trade secrets. I can say, however, that for the M-Class there were dozens of engineers like you who thought that any US company could provide a Mercedes part as well as their German counterparts. The reality, however, was that the specified alloys (for aluminum parts) were not common in the US, and indeed the parts needed to be sourced overseas.
Why is that important, though? What would be convincing is if you could show an endurance test of different coolants in a running MB engine. I have a sample size of two where the water pumps started leaking after using "insert name here" coolant. Was it the ultimate cause - no idea, but I do believe in science and chemistry and corrosion, so I'm convinced (given the cost/benefit).

Iron motor block; aluminum heads, aluminum cooling (heater core and radiator) system.

I love the fact that there's some pushback to using MB or Zerex G-05 (both made by Dow Chem in the US and packaged in the same jug) given that fact that 1) it's a Mercedes spec; 2) the coolant has a 2YR life; 3) It isn't that costly.

I know this is an old-lost thread... but I wanted to add something.


First, I do not think the majority will be able to get 20-30 years to a plastic radiator regardless of the coolant used. But, within this thread there was always the question on what makes G05 coolant different?

It's quite simple, the buffering ability. It's not the ethylene glycol content. Get some ph papers and check to make sure the coolant is neither acid or basic. As it ages and reacts with electoylsis byproducts- it becomes more basic. You'll find the MB coolant does buffer better for 2-3 years.

That's the short of the "Stu Ritter" explaination I got- he was a chemist in college and actually checked PH of the coolants.

M

15 years
 

They probably will.

My 2008 C300's manual shows a 15 year coolant change and at this point there is no reason to believe this isn't technically possible. It's also possible than this will change at some point when cooling problems might start appearing, particularly if MB has to pay the repair bills.

Keep in mind that the MB "lifetime trans fluid) idea didn't last too long and the change interval became about 38000 miles in 2005 (or before) because of warranty claims related to fluid related problems.

I am a believer in following factory recommendations and the proof for me is that the aluminum radiator in my 26+ year old Porsche 944 is the original due to the use of the required Phosphate Free antifreeze. Considering the cost of a gallon jug and a three year change interval, any additional cost over the cheap stuff is irrelevant.

There are many cars that use plastic rad tanks/necks, alum heads/blocks. My Lexus (owned 1) recommended Toy (pink) antifreeze, my Land Rover (1) recommends Land Rover antifreeze, my jeeps (owned 4) recommended Chry antifreeze, my BMW's (8) recommend BWW, and my Volvos (5) recommend Volvo antifreeze. All the Porsches (8) have been/are air cooled!!! I'm sure most manufact's recommend their own brand. Do all of these cars need/require their own antifreeze? Do each of them use a significant diff mixture of alloys in their heads/blocks, and are the antifreeze mixtures that different?????

Now, having said the above, if I purchased a new "whatever" car, I'd let the dealer do it's maint "thing" for the first several years of ownership, then I'd take over.

Not disagreeing/agreeing at all, just can't believe they are all different!

I've always just gone to autozone, and grabbed Zerex/Prestone for the last 25yrs, and never had a coolant related failure in the past 25yrs of messing with these cars.

i don't buy that there's a difference between mb coolant and g05--it's the same coolant repackaged into an mb bottle. no buffering difference, whatever that means