Buying a C class ??? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Benzadmiral · #16 09-12-2006, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixto

I expect most used cars at any dealership are not direct trade-ins. A string of dealerships will balance used car inventory, and there's the popular dealer auctions.

I imagine a Lexus dealership would go through a used MB very thoroughly so as not to inherit an MB reliability problem. Much easier for an MB dealership to disclaim a Lexus reliability problem.

Sixto
93 300SD

I purchased my '97 C230 from the local Lexus dealer. The original owner -- I have a printout of the MB warranty repairs -- kept the car 7 years and 59,000 miles from new before trading. Not a lemon, nor has it been for me. And the Lexus people, I think, did go through it pretty carefully, and fixed the couple of small things I wanted done besides.

That said, there's always that risk. When you see a one- or two-year-old car back on the dealer's lot, you wonder why. . . .
.

rchase · #17 09-12-2006, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benzadmiral

That said, there's always that risk. When you see a one- or two-year-old car back on the dealer's lot, you wonder why. . . .
.

Maybee its owner wanted something different? There are a number of people who only keep a car a couple of years. My doctor friends BMW was only a year and a half old. A year is a long time for some people.

rchase · #18 09-12-2006, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixto

I expect most used cars at any dealership are not direct trade-ins. A string of dealerships will balance used car inventory, and there's the popular dealer auctions.

I imagine a Lexus dealership would go through a used MB very thoroughly so as not to inherit an MB reliability problem. Much easier for an MB dealership to disclaim a Lexus reliability problem.

Sixto
93 300SD

Not entirely true. While there are auctions most higher end dealerships don't have to stock their lots due to the massive number of trade ins that they get. Most new Lexus, MB and BMW dealerships dont need to go to auctions to find their cars. Their used units come from trade ins and from lease returns. These dealerships send most of their unacceptable units to the auctions. Cars that are too old or that have too many miles are the ones that end up at the auctions. The reason many leases have stipulations about mileage restrictions is because many of the cars end up as certified preowned units on the used lot when they are returned. Too many miles means they can't use it as a certified preowned.

The dealerships that do buy from auctions generally are the bottom feeders. Domestic car lots will typically buy high end cars to get people onto the lot. The buy here pay here lots will buy a lot of the older high end cars that they sell on their lots and make more money in their financing than they did on the car itself. When you see that BMW or MB at the Ford dealer do you really think someone traded it in on a new Ford?

A Lexus dealer while still a Lexus dealer would get a high volume of trade ins and lease returns and generally would have no need to buy a Mercedes at auction. Especially a C class. They might pick up an S55 or an SL at auction but why would they pick up a low margin unit when they have plenty of high margin trade in's to choose from where they don't have to bid against other dealerships?

I at one time sold cars and saw the domestic dealers in action. I would not reccomend buying off of a domestic lot because they do "lot stock". Most of the domestic car trade ins are high mileage and are generally beat. Most domestic buyers seem to stick with domestic makes and don't maintain their cars as well as some of the European/Japanese owners do. In order to keep their used lot from looking like a junk yard they have to buy at auction and pick from the inventory the top feeders did not want. Additionally used car units are the most profitable units that you can sell on a lot. Not only do you have a lot of margin in the car to begin with but most buyers that are financing used cars pay high interest rates.

With a car sale there are several profit centers. The car itself is one but so is financing and "add ons". Dealerships get a kickback on the financing that they set you up with. They also get kickbacks on the warranties and other services that they sucker you into buying on the car. One way to get a great deal is to fight tooth and nail on the price of the car and let THEM finance you and add on all of their packages onto your deal. They will let the car go cheap because they are making money on the backside of the deal and you can step in with your own finacing and pay the car off in full. Most of the warranties and other programs can be canceled and refunded. They really hate it when you do that.

page62 · #19 09-12-2006, 04:03 PM

Wow! Somebody dredged up this old thread and brought it back to life. And there are some interesting posts here...

The irony is that we bought our C320 on a Toyota lot. It was 3 years old with only 6K miles on the odo!!! The sales manager claimed the previous owner traded it in on a Sequoia SUV. This had a ring of truth...as the poor C320 must have sat practically unused for the first 3 years of its life.

Now the car is 6 years old and only has 27K miles. And it still looks like new!

sixto · #20 09-12-2006, 04:23 PM

I didn't mean to speak in absolutes, however...

I think it would be an amazing coincidence if the variety of used cars for sale at a lot reflects the variety of cars traded in. I still think the used car offering reflects what prospective buyers ask to see, and the proportion of trade ins just won't support that (e.g., lots of SUVs traded in when gas prices are high). I imagine there's an abundance of trade ins to choose from in the industry overall otherwise there wouldn't be dedicated used car lots. But I'd be surprised if half the used cars at any given MB lot are direct trades.

I expect this is particularly true within dealer chains. Cars returned to the Putnam group in the SF Bay Area or the Ellis group in SoCal probably stay within the chain but not at the recieving dealership. Again, a matter of statistics.

The other thing that doesn't connect with me is lease returns. How many leases are financed by the dealership? My guess is not enough to account for all lease returns on offer. If a dealership has to buy lease returns to offer, why be limited to the cars returned to their lot? I imagine manufacturers give their dealerships first crack at regional lease returns. Not too expensive to shuttle cars within a 50 mile radius.

Of course I defer to those with first hand knowledge. I'm just putting uneducated ideas to see what folks have to say.

And my contribution to the thread - unless you're buying a Starmark car, buy an MB from any dealership that treats as you deserve to be treated and can convince you that they've thoroughly inspected the car.

Has anyone asked an MB dealership to do a PPI on a used MB on their lot? Outside of Starmark cars, I mean.

Sixto
93 300SD

sixto · #21 09-12-2006, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by page62

The irony is that we bought our C320 on a Toyota lot. It was 3 years old with only 6K miles on the odo!!! The sales manager claimed the previous owner traded it in on a Sequoia SUV. This had a ring of truth...as the poor C320 must have sat practically unused for the first 3 years of its life.

You can only rack up so many miles in waist deep snow or neck high floods

Sixto
93 300SD

page62 · #22 09-12-2006, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixto

You can only rack up so many miles in waist deep snow or neck high floods

Sixto
93 300SD

Fortunately, we have neither around here. Nor earthquakes or wildfiles.

Just plenty of heat... :fork_off:

sixto · #23 09-12-2006, 04:53 PM

I realize that was a mean thing to suggest. My apologies.

Sixto
93 300SD ... probably has been through snow and floods

page62 · #24 09-12-2006, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixto

I realize that was a mean thing to suggest. My apologies.

Sixto
93 300SD ... probably has been through snow and floods

No need to apologize. I saw the humor in it.

page62 · #25 09-12-2006, 06:33 PM

It's a Mercedes-only V6. No Chrysler in there.

There are 2 generations of V6 engines: a single overhead cam unit up to 2005, and a more powerful DOHC engine from 2006 onward.

JasonOne · #26 10-19-2006, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rchase

Not entirely true. While there are auctions most higher end dealerships don't have to stock their lots due to the massive number of trade ins that they get. Most new Lexus, MB and BMW dealerships dont need to go to auctions to find their cars. Their used units come from trade ins and from lease returns. These dealerships send most of their unacceptable units to the auctions. Cars that are too old or that have too many miles are the ones that end up at the auctions. The reason many leases have stipulations about mileage restrictions is because many of the cars end up as certified preowned units on the used lot when they are returned. Too many miles means they can't use it as a certified preowned.

The dealerships that do buy from auctions generally are the bottom feeders. Domestic car lots will typically buy high end cars to get people onto the lot. The buy here pay here lots will buy a lot of the older high end cars that they sell on their lots and make more money in their financing than they did on the car itself. When you see that BMW or MB at the Ford dealer do you really think someone traded it in on a new Ford?

A Lexus dealer while still a Lexus dealer would get a high volume of trade ins and lease returns and generally would have no need to buy a Mercedes at auction. Especially a C class. They might pick up an S55 or an SL at auction but why would they pick up a low margin unit when they have plenty of high margin trade in's to choose from where they don't have to bid against other dealerships?

I at one time sold cars and saw the domestic dealers in action. I would not reccomend buying off of a domestic lot because they do "lot stock". Most of the domestic car trade ins are high mileage and are generally beat. Most domestic buyers seem to stick with domestic makes and don't maintain their cars as well as some of the European/Japanese owners do. In order to keep their used lot from looking like a junk yard they have to buy at auction and pick from the inventory the top feeders did not want. Additionally used car units are the most profitable units that you can sell on a lot. Not only do you have a lot of margin in the car to begin with but most buyers that are financing used cars pay high interest rates.

With a car sale there are several profit centers. The car itself is one but so is financing and "add ons". Dealerships get a kickback on the financing that they set you up with. They also get kickbacks on the warranties and other services that they sucker you into buying on the car. One way to get a great deal is to fight tooth and nail on the price of the car and let THEM finance you and add on all of their packages onto your deal. They will let the car go cheap because they are making money on the backside of the deal and you can step in with your own finacing and pay the car off in full. Most of the warranties and other programs can be canceled and refunded. They really hate it when you do that.

This manner of buying a used MBZ from an MBZ dealership is of great interest to me. Would you explain this further to me? I have been looking at a used C or E class car within the last 12 years and am up against obstacles. The financing is higher with the dealership, they don't show a complete PPI and they make repairs with high dollar charges shown. I would like to borrow money from my own lender and then get the best car for the money. Now from a dealer I need to make sure the car is at the best price with the complete repair and replace maintenance performed.

Originally I looked at a 1992 and a 1994 300CE/E320 Coupe. Both Beverly Hills ordered cars with Black on Black combo and relatively low miles with extras like CD players and phone systems.

Now I have looked at the following models, 1998 C43, 1999 C230Kompressor, 1999 C280 and C43 as well as the 2002 C32 and also a 1996 C36.

All I need to do now is get the best for the least amount and make sure it's been completely gone thru.

I would appreciate any and all help.

Thanks,
Jason

rchase · #27 10-20-2006, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonOne

This manner of buying a used MBZ from an MBZ dealership is of great interest to me. Would you explain this further to me? I have been looking at a used C or E class car within the last 12 years and am up against obstacles. The financing is higher with the dealership, they don't show a complete PPI and they make repairs with high dollar charges shown. I would like to borrow money from my own lender and then get the best car for the money. Now from a dealer I need to make sure the car is at the best price with the complete repair and replace maintenance performed.

Originally I looked at a 1992 and a 1994 300CE/E320 Coupe. Both Beverly Hills ordered cars with Black on Black combo and relatively low miles with extras like CD players and phone systems.

Now I have looked at the following models, 1998 C43, 1999 C230Kompressor, 1999 C280 and C43 as well as the 2002 C32 and also a 1996 C36.

All I need to do now is get the best for the least amount and make sure it's been completely gone thru.

I would appreciate any and all help.

Thanks,
Jason

Hmmm,

Good luck on that. If your looking for a full retail unit with all the factory blessings your going to pay for it. Perhaps you might locate an independant and have the car's inspected and just eat some of the minor repair costs? Your going to have to spend one way or another. MB lots usually Starmark their nice cars and don't liquidate them like other makers might. When Im looking for a used Mercedes the LAST place I go is a MB dealership.

page62 · #28 10-20-2006, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonOne

All I need to do now is get the best for the least amount and make sure it's been completely gone thru.

Your best best would be to find a car being sold by an individual -- one who is meticulous about their car and keeping service records.

I know this is a difficult thing, but it is possible. Newspaper ads, Autotrader and craigslist.org are your friends!

Hatterasguy · #29 10-20-2006, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rchase

MB lots usually Starmark their nice cars and don't liquidate them like other makers might. When Im looking for a used Mercedes the LAST place I go is a MB dealership.

Yeah but they have some nice cars! They only keep the cream of the crop. For example the local one took a 1996 E300D in on trade with only 20k miles! It looked like a brand new car, not a mark on the thing! It was on the lot for a short time at $21k. Thats a lot for such a car, but again it was perfect and came with a warranty. You could spend $10k less on ebay for the same model but its going to have darn near 100k on it and not be in the same shape.

You really do get what you pay for in regards to used MB's, and people who pay good money for a perfect example usualy are not disapointed.

rchase · #30 10-21-2006, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

Yeah but they have some nice cars! They only keep the cream of the crop. For example the local one took a 1996 E300D in on trade with only 20k miles! It looked like a brand new car, not a mark on the thing! It was on the lot for a short time at $21k. Thats a lot for such a car, but again it was perfect and came with a warranty. You could spend $10k less on ebay for the same model but its going to have darn near 100k on it and not be in the same shape.

You really do get what you pay for in regards to used MB's, and people who pay good money for a perfect example usualy are not disapointed.

Regardless of how high the price goes and how low the mileage goes its still a used car. That insane amount of money you spend for the "perfect car" could be used to take a slightly imperfect car to being perfect with money left over.

And of course as a used car buyer you have no way of knowing if the MB dealer did not spruce the car up themselves. Go by the MB dealer during the beginning of the week and hang out near the back of the used car section and you might catch a glimpse of the guy with the pickup truck and airbrush doing paint repairs and detailing.

Consumer driven cars are imperfect. I have seen brand new cars with scratches swirl marks and other imperfections. Paying an exhorbatant amount of money for a car with a low number on the odometer and "perfect" cosmetics is more of an emotional response than one of logic. The dealerships know this and are standing by to take your money.