I looked through your search, and found some similar issues with M119 engines but nothing in particualr was the same.

I have a surging idle. In the morning when the car starts up( it starts perfectly everytime) it idles around ~1000 RPMS then after that the idle is normal till the engine begins to warm up.

In park the idle begins surging randomly, as if i was putting my foot down on the pedal to the beat of music. it surges between 700 and 1300 RPMS.

When I drop the car into D The surge goes away, its there but its almost undetectable. until after a while at random, i would say 3 or more minutes at idle it hiccupps. It dosent stall, it surges quickly then it idles normal for a while before doing it again.

When driving the car up shifts are great, almost undetectable and smooth, when i hammer down the gas it takes off like a shot, no hesitation just hard power. Then when i let off the gas, the car stays at RPMS and slowly drops in RPM in sport mode. (I understand this is for cornering to make up for the fact that i cant select what gear i want to be in when i accelerate out of a corner, thus it keeps the RPMS nice and high. IS THIS NORMAL OPERATION for the 722.6 5 speed autos?)

Here is another curiosity. If i drive around 40 kmh the car seems confused as to what gear it needs to be in. It seems like its constanly shifting but, possibly its cutting out. If i tap the gas it instantly responds but when i take my foot off its like i put the brakes on. Before it started doing this i would take my foot off the gas and the car would slowly wind down. Now when I let off the gas it abruptly slows down. Its like the gas is on or off, no inbetween at that slow of speed.

Another curiosity is hills. When i come down a steep hill the car seems like its searching for the right gear. as i come down keeping a constant speed it will seem like it shifts up, then when i start gaining speed it seems to shift down then ill brake a little and it will shift back up then i start gaining speed it shifts back up.

NOW. The transmission was just REBUILT for rough downshifts. When the car went into my tech it idled great and didn't have these problems.
When i got it back i was excited because the rough shifting was gone, but then as i kept driving i started making these observations.

So now to my question. Is there something that he would have touched or removed that would do this? I believe he didn't do the procedure properly. I took it back to him, told him i wasnt satisfied and he told me it is COMPLETELY unrelated to the problem. The car was FINE when i dropped it off now it drives like crap. He says he will investigate the spark and the ignition system. (At my cost) He says he is 100% sure that it was not caused by him. He thinks that its fuel or spark related or perhaps a sensor. i think he screwed up, but i really dont want to spend another 400EUR at some other place to tell me something i already know.

Has anyone had this problem? Or have any techs ran into this problem on M119 cars with 722.6 Transmissions? My AMG has ran flawlessly for a year. and before it went to him it still ran flawlessly it just shifted down to 1st really rough.

I know I know, check the plugs, spark, wires, SIMPLE STUFF Thing is... I don't want to start just throwing parts at it. I need some basis to get going from. Primarily what he could have messed up in there. It ran fine 7 days ago now it runs like a bag of ass.

I Appreciate you taking the time to read this.

ANDY

PS: I am located in Germany, I am American military.

To start with the M119 engines have had surging problems from the beginning..related to throttle actuators. Start by having codes read from the fuel system. Cleaning the throttle & throttle butterfly normally HELPS the problem. Possibly a re-adaptation of the trans will help with the shifting.

__________________
MERCEDES Benz Master Guild Technician (6 TIMES)
ASE Master Technician
Mercedes Benz Star Technician (2 times)
44 years foreign automotive repair
27 Years M.B. Shop foreman (dealer)
MB technical information Specialist (15 years)
190E 2.3 16V ITS SCCA race car (sold)
1986 190E 2.3 16V 2.5 (sold)
Retired Moderator

I found a thread by sea coast benz where he outlines that this problem is caused by 80 million different things.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=72195&highlight=M119+surging

After reviewing the facts i think im going to start with the Neutral safety switch-shift position switch

Where is it located?

Would it have to be tampered with to remove and install a transmission and could a bad one be the cause of these symptoms? Is it easy to get to, is it something i can do myself?

To start with the M119 engines have had surging problems from the beginning..related to throttle actuators. Start by having codes read from the fuel system. Cleaning the throttle & throttle butterfly normally HELPS the problem. Possibly a re-adaptation of the trans will help with the shifting.

I see this as being much more simple. In every thread I have read about L-H mode. My car dosent do that, the ASR works fine. I can turn-it off and it makes no difference. The main reason is that the car ran flawlessly. It just had its 165000KM service at M-B Zentrum Stuttgart. The mechanic took out the tranny to replace worn clutches now it has all these problems.

thanks guys, this is the best repair forum bar none.
ANDY

Of course that car doesn't have a neutral safety switch OR I would have suggested that...You didn't mention any traction codes either are there any traction lights ON?

__________________
MERCEDES Benz Master Guild Technician (6 TIMES)
ASE Master Technician
Mercedes Benz Star Technician (2 times)
44 years foreign automotive repair
27 Years M.B. Shop foreman (dealer)
MB technical information Specialist (15 years)
190E 2.3 16V ITS SCCA race car (sold)
1986 190E 2.3 16V 2.5 (sold)
Retired Moderator

Of course that car doesn't have a neutral safety switch OR I would have suggested that...You didn't mention any traction codes either are there any traction lights ON?

Damn! No neutral safety switch. Traction lights? You mean like the triangle with the exclaimation point?

It comes on when its supposed to. I can defeat ASR in this car. When i turn it off the light is on all the time. When I floor it...Of course it flashes.

I dont get any messages on the insturment cluster, no warning or caution lights are lit.

ANDY

__________________
1997 E50 ///AMG, M119, 722.6 5-speed
1986 190E 2.3-16 ECE 185hp, power nothing
1983 380SEC, in storage sitting and rotting

Traction MIL lights MIGHT include ESP , ABS OR ASR. do any of those stay on?

IF not then back to the throttle actuator for cleaning...not a hard job..takes less than an hour.

__________________
MERCEDES Benz Master Guild Technician (6 TIMES)
ASE Master Technician
Mercedes Benz Star Technician (2 times)
44 years foreign automotive repair
27 Years M.B. Shop foreman (dealer)
MB technical information Specialist (15 years)
190E 2.3 16V ITS SCCA race car (sold)
1986 190E 2.3 16V 2.5 (sold)
Retired Moderator

I have had several cars come in with vacuum lines pulled off the back of the intake manifold after having the trans removed. The idle will wander with a
vacuum leak. The angle of the engine when removing the trans can stress
lines and cause them to slip off or fail.
look at the big plastic purge line coming from the purge valve to the drivers
side of the engine above the p/s pump. That one loves to pop off.
I would have to say that if your car ran like crud after they touched it,
then they should have another look at no charge.
Good luck
DR.D

__________________
Dr.Diesel -
Shop Foreman
Master Guild Mercedes-Benz Technician.

Think the dealer is expensive? Do you know how much it costs to train a dealer tech? Or buy the required MB special tools to have on hand?

http://media.putfile.com/AMG-E50-Idle-Problem

I made a video today of the problem, just thought it might help, or that you may have a stunning revalation i havent thought of.

Sorry about the sound quality.

ANDY

__________________
1997 E50 ///AMG, M119, 722.6 5-speed
1986 190E 2.3-16 ECE 185hp, power nothing
1983 380SEC, in storage sitting and rotting

For what it's worth... I had a very similar problem with my 1994 SL500. It turned out to be a bad "EA/ISC Actuator". It's essentially the throttle body assembly. There is a switch in the assembly that tells the computer when it's supposed to be at idle. The technician was able to read some fault codes that indicated that it was a problem. (Something like "lost communication with..." Not sure it's the same thing... but the symptoms are identical. After replacing it.... I still have a somewhat rough idle that seems almost like something is out of balance. But that's a different discussion.

Yeah these engines seem to be difficult to diagnose once something goes wrong. So you spent a ton of money on the throttle actuator and you still ended up having a only slightly more stable idle. Looks like i will probably just live with it. The car still has plenty of power. i just ran 13.636@105 and could have ran better, so im not losing any of my performance.

The only thing that really annoys me is what feels like constant shifting when going down a hill or when im doing less than 50kmh. But when I slam the accelerator down she still moves!

__________________
1997 E50 ///AMG, M119, 722.6 5-speed
1986 190E 2.3-16 ECE 185hp, power nothing
1983 380SEC, in storage sitting and rotting

The unstable idle wasn't the problem that the throttle body was addressing. The problem was surging idle and stalling and it was definitely fixed by the throttle body replacement. (If it didn't, the dealer was more than willing to put the old one in.) The unstable idle seems to be worse when cold, and quiets down considerably when the engine is warm. I think it's a totally different problem. I'm trying some Techron to see if it helps.