Got me a gasser,,, 400e 1992 but the ASR,,,
 

It has the dreaded ASR Limphome problem. The PO replaced the wire harness and then got frustrated with the ASR issue.

I've only had it for a day and haven't driven it, but it seems like the ASR comes on as soon as the car moves i.e. put the car in gear and the ASR light comes on. Sometimes immediately after starting it, the ASR light comes on.

I know how to defeat the ASR, but since I'll be driving this car in the Wintertime, I'd prefer to keep the ASR functional.

Are there any diagnostic procedures to figure out what the problem is? Anyone else have the ASR problem, what did you do to correct it?

Mileage 100684

Thanks

Marty

Had the light go on one time, and it turned out to be a defective brake light switch.
Let's hope your trouble is as easy (and cheap!).

400e asr
 

larry is right should be brake light switch but........buy from dealer a/market ones are junk.david poole dallas tx.

WEll I think that I have confirmed that the ASR comes on when the car is put in gear. Apparantly it sometimes 'sticks' in memory and turns on immediately. I disconnected the battery and when I reconnected it, I let the car idle for 3-4 minutes, no ASR, then as soon as I put the car into gear (R) the ASR light came on. I also noticed that revving up the car in park causes teh ASR light to come on. hadn't happened the first rev, but maybe the 3rd or 4th.

Brake light switch? Wouldn't just pressing on the brake to move the gear selector the cause the light to come on?

Marty

switch
 

there are two circuits in the switch and one of them is open. david poole

If you know how to defeat ASR please tell us. I've searched these archives for hours, or maybe it was days, and came to the conclusion that it wasn't possible - just too many components involved.

To defeat ASR simply disconnect pins 25 35 and 37 on the ASR module.

I did this and the car's idle increased to 1200-1500 RPM while in park, but no surging of idle like when ASR is on.

If you need help locating the ASR module, ask.

What I'm trying to do is figure out if the 1500RPM is OK, or did I do something wrong. Also, I didn;t notice any change in performance between ASR defeated, and ASR on.

Does the 400e get really sluggish when the ASR light is on? I've only driven the car a couple hundred feet, as I still don't have tags on it.

Marty

I've seen ASR light with and without limp home mode. I actually sold mine - but there's so many nice cars out there for sale with ASR - that I won't touch unless/until there's a proven means of disable. I wouldn't consider 1500 rpms an viable tradeoff.

I tend to agree with you about the 1500 RPMs in park, but in "D" the RPMs are more in line around 700 I believe. I need to get tags on it and drive it some, but my limited experience with this car I don't think it's limp home mode even though teh ASR light is on.

Tomorrow I will know as I plan on getting it tagged and driven a bit.

Marty

Finally Drove my 400e
 

I tagged my 400e and drove it to the post office to deliver Mercedes parts. The ASR light was on the whole way, but man this car has alot of power. No limp home mode to the post office. I turned the car off, went in when I came back out, ASR light turned on and the car was in limp home mode. WHAT A DIFFERENCE, coughing and sputtering. I thgen turned the car off and restarted her. A little coughing and sputtering, then NO limphome all the way home. But I was afraid to use the acceleration to make a left turn into oncoming traffic, all I need is for coughing and sputtering as cars approach me at 35 MPH.

I guess my next step is to defeat the ASR and see how she runs.

Marty

I like my ASR. I can stomp on the gas during a heavy rain, and make it across the road without spinning my tires and getting nowhere, or worse yet, getting only into the middle of the intersection instead of across it.


You wanna do donuts on someones lawn? push the snowchain button...it'll letcha.

Well I defeated the ASR (I know that I defeated it becasue the snowchain light illuminates when teh ASR is defeated), the car ran great going to UPS to drop off a cylinder head, she ran great going to Walmart (to pick up a wiper), but then on the way home from walmart, on the freeway (first time on the freeway for me in this car) she would hesitate and surge while at moderate throttle, she was fine under heavy acceleration, and fine when coasting, but inbetween I'd get hesitation then surges.

The PO told me he had the wiring harness replaced, and EA Unit R/R'd at Benntech or something like that in NC. but I didn't see the receipt, but he had no reason to lie to me, trust me he didn't.

Well anyway, the car idle's fine, smooth, at 650 (or so) when ASR is not defeated. When ASR is defeated (by interrupting pins 25, 35, and 37 on the ASR module) the idle RPM (in park) is 1200-1500. The idle goes down to about 600 when in gear.

Since I've defeated the ASR, the car has not coughed and sputtered like it did leaving the post office (see earlier post).

It does seem that I must depress the throttle a little excessive to get the car moving (both ASR on and off). If accellerating lightly, the car seems to shift late. When accelerating with a leadfoot, I get whiplash when the car tackes off.

The ASR it seems never turned on when the car is just idleing, but revving it up tends to increase the voltage across the ASR light, i.e. ASR light on.

So something is not right with the car, so I'm gonna build a DTC code scanner and see what I can come up with.

Anyone got any ideas, suggestions, or relevent symptoms?

Marty

Well I built me a DTC code scanner, very easy it is to make. I pulled codes

Pin 4 - LH-SFI NFF
Pin 8 - Base Module NFF
Pin 17 - Distributor Ignition NFF
Pin 7 - Cruise Control/Idle Speed Control
(Now the dtc code guide states a 16 pin data link connector, well I only have the 38 pin so I went with that on this test)
3 --- Right EA/CC/ISC actuator (left cylinder bank) (M16/1)
6 --- Starter Lock-out/backup lamp switch
Pin 6 - Anti-Lock Brakes
30 --- CAN data line to electronic accelerator/cruise control/idle speed control module
Pin 16 - A/C NFF
Pin 30 - SRS
3 --- Driver Airbag squib
4 --- Front passenger airbag squib
8 --- Voltage supply interrupted

After reading the code I deleted it.

I then started the car and revved up the engine a few times, and rechecked the codes,,, nothing new

Mileage 100704

Now time for a test drive. Remember my ASR has been defeated, I'm trying to seperate the pre ASR (sensors) from the Post ASR (Controls)

Will be back in a few.

mileage 100714

Marty

OK I'm back from the test drive and I've re-read the codes, I still have:

3 --- Cruise Control/Idle Speed control module (But that's from the diagnostic sheet for a 400e w/o ASR,,, I gotta find a sheet With ASR.

Right EA/CC/ISC actuator (left cylinder bank) (M16/1)

30 --- CAN data line to electronic accelerator/cruise control/idle speed control module

OH and the cruise control doesn't work. The car is not as responsive to the accelerator pedal (learned that word from the diesel forum,,, anyone driving a diesel and call it a gas pedal will, well, basically get flamed :D ), what i mean is the amount of pedal movement (0-20%) until the car moves is a little more then I would think, but then the next (20-40%) the car abruptly takes off. (40-100% HOLD ON to your hats)

All the other codes from my previous post have not yet re-appeared, so it looks like I gotta find the cruise control and the CAN, but I thought only Fords had a CAN:eek:

Anyone got any ideas about what to look for,,, or am I out on a limb by myself on this one.

Marty

I don't know why you don't look at your throttle actuator. ASR is part of the throttle actuator function, I believe.

There's a throttle actuator??? ,,, OR do you mean The Electronic Accelerator Pedal Actuator.

It has many different names. If the car is running just keep checking and clearing the codes.

Some people call it the throttle body.

It is also known is the ISC / EA / CC actuator.

Idle speed control / electronic accelerator/ cruise control.

It sits underneath your intake manifold. It is a widely known failure part on M104 and M119 engines.

Yep that's what the code scanner points to, actually spells it out M16/1 is the location on the drawing.

I was hoping I wouldn't have to tear that far into this car. I definitely hope it's something I can repair.

I'll keep yawl posted.

Marty

Mileage 100740

I've driven the 400e a few times now and seem to think that the "issue" (I'm calling it an issue because the ASR has been defeated and the car will not go into LH mode. Thus hopefullt allowing me to return the car to good working order.)

REad the codes again, this time I didn't need the paperwork. Still getting #30 - Can and # 6 ETA

The car seems to run fine when cold. The gas pedal is a little quirky, either you accelerate rather fast, or very slowly. - Now please realize my daily driver is a 300SD turbo diesel, so acceleration is a relative term here.

Cruise doesn't work

When the car seems to be running correctly, the temp gauge reads 80, when it's misbehaving, the temp increases to around 90

When the car misbehaves, it's rather difficult to maintain a steady speed. It seems to cough immediately prior to the little bit of acceleration needed to maintain a constant speed. But when I accelerate moderately everything seems fine.

Gonna pull codes again, I love playing with my home-made code scanner.

Marty

Mileage 100784

Just today I had the experience of sputtering/coughing for about 2 seconds when accelerator was pressed, then the car took off. I'm starting to wonder if the problem might be a rough spot in the potnetiometer. Seems that the car misbehaves when the accelerator pedal is in one particular spot. This would explain why I couldn't keep a steady speed on the freeway, also could explain my feelings about the acceleration issue.

We'll see. but for now, pulling codes and test driving.

Marty

Mileage 100841

Muffler falls off. You know this car (without a muffler) reminds me of my '84 monte carlo SS. It has that deep rumble sound at idle. I kinda like it.

Aside from the muffler, I've noticed that I only have problems after the car has warmed up. I drove about one mile to church today. The car sat for 45 minutes, on the way home the car acted up.

The car never got up to temperature. Maybe 50-60C at most. but I 'm guessing the heat soak from sitting managed to disrupt whatever so the car acted up. Acting up is no power on acceleration, but press the pedal further down and instantly accelerates.

mileage 100864

I have noticed on several occassions that when the car is acting up, it seems to be oscillating in RPM. About once a second (or every 2 seconds) the RPM increases then decrease. This is at idle and/or light acceleration (enough to maintain 35 MPH)

It reminds me of a ground loop.

Is this still the signs of a bad EA?

O2 sensor comes to mind - although usually, it's when the engine is cold, that you notice a bad one the most. But hey...throw some holy water on it, and if it doesn't catch fire, continue working on it ;)

It still sounds to me like you have the classic symptoms of a bad throttle actuator.

Bekman technologies in North Carolina rebuilds them.

Many forum members have gone this route.

Try the search function.

JimF has been particularly helpful. Read this thread:

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=112493&highlight=throttle

If you have taken the ASR offline, then the cruise will not work. Just un-plugging a speed sensor up by the front shock towers is the easiest way to defeat ASR too. You'll lose ABS also (which I don't like anyway)

It can be frustrating to track down the cause of your 'limp mode' and its usually not the ASR module. Little items like the brake stop lamp switch, neutral lock-out switch and accelerator kick-down switch can sometimes be the only problem(s). There's a switch for the accelator pedal also on the top of it under the dash. A weak battery or faulty voltage regualtor can throw a spike in the electronics and cause it too. Could also be the TBA as stated before, which is probably the biggest $ item to replace. Both of your wiring harnesses should be newe(er) to rule out the known problems they cause if old. And the codes thrown often, but not always, are merely ghosts, pointing you to where the problem isn't. Checking all the grounds is a good idea too. Some of them are in places that get cruddy.

Keep us posted on how the fix goes. :)

I had the same problem with my 89 C230K and as David Poole said earlier it was the brake light switch that was the problem. I replaced it and all is well. It runs and drives as new.

Steve

After a few more miles (101290)

The car behaves as such:

When cold (0-about 5 minutes) (<70C) the car runs great. After the 5 minutes (or so) the following symptoms occur:

1) The accelerator pedal is offset, meaning I push about 1/2 inch before I get a reaction from the car
2) The tranny seems to stay into gear longer (maybe because I have to press further on the pedal telling the tranny I'm accelerating faster/harder then I really am.
3) The engine runs hotter


Jim --- I defeated the ASR so that I wouldn't get the car into the apply brake mode when accelerating. Since I have defeated the ASR, I have been able to drive the car without the problems associated with limp-homoe mode, namely the brakes being applied when they shouldn't.

Marty

I say replace the throttle acutator as well, www.4mercedes.com rebuilds them and are considrably less exspensive then bekkman technologies. Until you replace the part symptoms are going to occur.

Chris

I'm hesitant replacing the Throttle actuator because once I go messing with the wiring harness, I may end up having to replace it.

Marty,

Verify the items that "Jims500e" suggested are operating and functioning correctly. His suggestions are a very insightful for your model of car. As always, I like to start with the least expensive - especially his suggestion about checking the battery voltage and/or faulty voltage regulator. These cars don't behave very well with sporadic or low voltage. When you physically view the condition of the wiring harness do you notice any cracked or broken sheathing on any of the wires? Make sure the wiring was not just repaired. Make sure the "brown" ground wire from the wiring harness is tight -(located next to fuel rail injector, passenger side, about 2nd-3rd plug back from front)


(not ASR )
What is the condition of maintenance items such as plugs, rotors, rotor caps, fuel filter, O2sensor? Broken or cracked hoses are common on older m119 engines which cause vacuum leaks which leads to poor, erratic engine performance. Also check for excessive carbon build up in the throttle body - especially around the butterfly flap. Cleaning the throttle body on my 400e helped the sticking peddle and idle.

Like I've stated previously,,, The symptoms occur AFTER the car warms up. Now that the ambient temp is in the 40's instead of the 60's or 70's the car drives correct a few mile longer then when the temp's were higher.

I guess a vacuum leak that is temperature dependant is a possibility, worthy of investigation, but with my luck, probably not the culprit.

miles 101390

Mespe,

As you know I just replaced the ETA on mine. You don't have to disturb the main wiring harness much. That said, I've replaced mine and did'nt worry about it much.

If you have not replaced the wiring harness, replace it unless you plan to sell the car first. Mine was in pathetic shape. In the ETA cable as well...The wiring 'cover' on the brown wires were powder. Green too. No wonder they cause trouble.

mileage 101600

After doing some research, I've discovered a TSB (Technical Service Bulletin No. 30/4) issued June 1992

It states "The affected control modules contain software that mey be too sensitive to certain conditions, resulting in the ASR warning lamp lighting, or the Electronic Accelerator system entering "limp-home" mode, combined with the storage of false failure codes. The codes tend to be related to the Electronic Accelerator actuator and the CAN-bus, but are enot always consistent."


The TSB also states a production date after 16/92 (or) that the "K"-number nust be K11 or greater for the 124.034 model, which is the 400e. (K10 or gerater for the 124.036, K12 or > for 140.032 and K10 or > for 140.042 and 140.051)

Well, my 400e has a K10 mfr in '91.

I don't know if a new module will fix my problem, (remember the EA and the wire harness have supposedly been replaced by the PO - and I have no reason to doubt him) but my symptoms are pretty much inline with the TSB's symptoms.

I have contacted the Local MB dealer and am awaiting a return call to see what the story is, he did tell me that there is an open campaign on my vehicle, cross my fingers and hope it's related to the module, then cross my toes and hope the new module fixes my car's issues.

Very interesting. But I don't understand "K-number" or "production date after 16/92".

PS - 16th week of model year production?

If you pull the cover off the modules box, you will see that the control module for the engine has a K-number and production date on it.

Going from memory on my daughter's 92 400e with the same problems and mileage you have. M/B dealer had car for extensive time and couldnt find problem. I changed brake pedal switch...that not it...there is also a transmission switch...not mess with it. Was told any slight electrical thing like lightbulb out somewhere could trigger the ASR .

Turned out to be comination of a few vacuum leaks as engine compartment gets hot and causes deterioration of all rubber stuff in there AND the throttle control device. Very expensive at $750 and several hrs labor. Cannot rebuilt them but there is an outfit from Florida as I recall who does sell rebuilt units.

Once you replace this device, car will run perfectly and cruise will work.

The last two times I drove the car, it was in limp home mode the entire time, think I'm gonna refrain from driving it until this gets resolved.

The last time that it drove fine, it lasted for about 12 miles (mostly highway), as soon as I got off the highway, limp home mode,,, been that way ever since.

Went to a dealership yesterday with my TSB about the ECU rev level. Apparantly the dealership doesn't have any record of the TSB that I was holding in my hands. They ahd a 30-3 and a 30-5, but not 30-4. And they couldn't (or didn't want) to look up campaign 92-0441

Should i try another dealership or go straight to MBUSA?

ASR Woes
 

I'm impressed that you built and are using the code reader. I used one to (finally!) find a burned trace on one of the computer boards. A little time with a soldering iron and a jumper wire, and it worked great.

The 400E is a great car when it's all sorted out. Keep us advised what you find...

The late shift is a feature, not a bug. It is to heat up the cats when it's cold.

Gerry Visel
92 400E

I had a similar problem with a 500 coupe of similar vintage, turned out to be a throttle control module, cost 800$ installed at the dealer, part was 400 or so. although on mine the asr light came on and would reset afte restart and then go on again

Maybe Limp home mode isn't really what I'm experiencing, as the Tach has no problem getting up to 6K when I'm experiencing the symptoms of surging at idle, (about once every second) and tranny staying in gear alot longer then I would like, and having to depress the throttle more before any acceleration occurs. I also noticed a bit of soot on the exhaust pipe as if I'm running rich.

When driving, I have to accelerate faster for the car to run good. And at around 1,000 RPM , when coasting, the RPMs will oscillate maybe 100 +/- it seems if I apply brakes for a few seconds the oscillation stops, until I give it gas.

Mespe, sorry to say but either your ignition module or ETA is starting to fail. Your ASR could be as simple as replacing the brake light switch or replacing the speed sensor on your rearend. Anyway the lose of Cruise Control points to the speed sensor, ETA and ignition module not working properly. The engine compartment can get extremely hot and cause damage to part because of heat.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=123795

mileage 101700

Well I dropped my 400e off at the mercedes dealership for $90 worthof diagnostics. Got a rental car too. I got the rental because, believe it or not, there was a safety recall still open on my car, 14 years later, MB still picked up the tab for the rental, which is a 2007 C280. What a nice car to drive, a little cramped, I'm used to the W126 300SD or the W124 400e, not one of these compact type cars. Things I like about the C280, radio station control in the steering wheel, automatic windshield wipers, the wipers turn on whenever the car detects enough moisture on the windshield, really neat. Oh and the steering wheel moves up automatically when the car is turned off. And the key is pretty neat, if you wanna call it a key that is.
I don't really care for the window controls, but I like the push once to open or close the sunroof completely. Great sound system, also like the weatherband bnuilt into the radio. Self dimming rearview and sideview mirror are pretty neat too. 4matic is AWESOME,,, Can't wait till the snow tomorrow (expecting up to a foot of lake effect snow) wonder how she'll handle when it's really nasty outside,,,, OK enough of the hijacked thread back to the 400e,,,

when I got the car to the dealership, it smelled really awful sulphur and the car had really misbehaved, unlike before,,, runnign a little rough at idle, shaking a bit and more un-Mercedes like behavior.

mileage 101753

I wasn't happy with the ECU, so I picked up another one, but the P/N differs. The original is a 124 545 06 32 the replacement is a 124 545 36 32. MY EPC doesn't even list a 124 545 06 32, it lists the '36 32 and a '40 32.

So I put in the ECU and now I have no throttle, and the engine oscilates from 800-1500 RPM at about the same frequency that it oscillated as earlier in the posts (with the original ECU the oscillation was about 100 RPM, not 700 RPM). The oscillation simmered down and when I hit the brake pedal it seems the oscillation stopped all together.

I gotta figure out how to get the ECU to recognize the EA throttle. I read that you simply turn the ignition on without starting the car for 90 seconds and the ECU automatically recognizes the EA, bnt this didn;t happen for me, then I tried pressing the accelerator to the floor wityh the KOE Off, but nothing. I pulled the codes (2, 3, 4, 6) and erased them, but 3 keeps coming back.

Anybody know how to mate the ECU to the EA?

So you dropped your car at the dealer on 12-6-06 for a diagnostic.

What did they tell you?

Dealer told me it was a "hard fault" and they want to replace the EA befoe they do anything else. I am currently looking for a reasonably priced EA. (This will make the 4th EA in the car or one about every 25K miles.) Dealer also told me they could NOT find the P/N's for the modules in my car.

Were all the EA's you already installed new or rebuilt?

hey jim
 

where is the connector you refered to by the shock towers on the front of the car that can disable the asr?:confused:

1st was at 21K miles, warranty from the factory on 5/24/93 the second one replaced was a rebuild form beckman technologies.