1985 280ce 5 Speed - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

JLJ133 · #1 10-30-2006, 05:38 AM

Any thoughts from thre crowd on this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=007&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=170044090478&rd=1,1

POS · #2 10-30-2006, 07:45 AM

I'm watching it to see what happens. Seems to be a real nice car in real good shape, but I haven't seen in personally. Still, $12k is a lot for that car - serious collectors only, but I still bet he gets nowhere near it.

t walgamuth · #3 10-30-2006, 08:20 AM

if it is as good as he says and it looks in the pics it may be worth the dough.

he didnt say how many miles i dont think.

the worst thing was him saying he would take a duster in trade!

oh my!

tom w

Jim B. · #4 10-30-2006, 02:21 PM

The seller, NKOWI is a Mercedes shop member and an enthusiast.

His profile has a MUCH better picture of the car on it

It really does look like a very nice 123 coupe though, especially in diamond blue and with those wheels.

Rather pricey though

JLJ133 · #5 10-30-2006, 06:27 PM

I was just truly jealous, as I have always wanted one.

Won't give up the SL for it though, I probably should.

seo · #6 10-31-2006, 07:44 AM

This looks like a nice car, but from what little I know, it isn't a collector's item: too many add-ons and doodads take away from collector appeal, I've been told so many times that I've come to believe it.
The Gertrag 5-speed isn't all THAT rare. I have one in my euro-spec 300d, and when I needed clutch parts (different from the 4-speed) the first mail-order parts source I called had them in stock. The guy on the phone said they sold "maybe ten" every year. Which suggests a pretty good population, since my car was 18 years old when it needed its first clutch job. An odd failure, by the way. One of the disengaging fingers in the pressure plate broke off, and lodged under the pressure plate, so that you couldn't clutch out. The disc still had plenty of friction on it, though.
It looked to me like swapping a 5-speed into a car with a 4-speed would be a plain bolt-up job, possibly requiring the flywheel and driveshaft from the 5-speed, but dunno.
Aside from that, why would you strip off all the paint looking for rust? The rust starts on the INSIDE, right? And works its way out. And I don't believe that any shop can equal the quality of the original factory primer. Now if he'd said they'd stripped off all the undercoat, and had pictures to document it, I'd have been impressed.
Anyway, if this car goes for over $7,000 I'll be surprised.
seo

seo · #7 10-31-2006, 07:58 AM

To my eye, this looks like a collector car:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Absolutely-Beautiful-1970-Mercedes-280-SE-Cabriolet_W0QQitemZ220039838132QQihZ012QQcategoryZ6329QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

The price seems ridiculous. But then I once declined to trade a somewhat rusty 1965 Volvo 122 for a Facel Vega, and passed up (in 1968) a Ferrari 265 Berlinetta because it was overpriced at $3,000. Oh well
seo

t walgamuth · #8 10-31-2006, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seo

This looks like a nice car, but from what little I know, it isn't a collector's item: too many add-ons and doodads take away from collector appeal, I've been told so many times that I've come to believe it.
The Gertrag 5-speed isn't all THAT rare. I have one in my euro-spec 300d, and when I needed clutch parts (different from the 4-speed) the first mail-order parts source I called had them in stock. The guy on the phone said they sold "maybe ten" every year. Which suggests a pretty good population, since my car was 18 years old when it needed its first clutch job. An odd failure, by the way. One of the disengaging fingers in the pressure plate broke off, and lodged under the pressure plate, so that you couldn't clutch out. The disc still had plenty of friction on it, though.
It looked to me like swapping a 5-speed into a car with a 4-speed would be a plain bolt-up job, possibly requiring the flywheel and driveshaft from the 5-speed, but dunno.
Aside from that, why would you strip off all the paint looking for rust? The rust starts on the INSIDE, right? And works its way out. And I don't believe that any shop can equal the quality of the original factory primer. Now if he'd said they'd stripped off all the undercoat, and had pictures to document it, I'd have been impressed.
Anyway, if this car goes for over $7,000 I'll be surprised.
seo

finger failure on clutches is fairly common, i think. i had it on one of my 240s. if swapping in a five speed you need a shorter ds. and if you think those five speeds are fairly common, just try to buy one.

they are as rare as the ivory billed woodpecker.

tom w

ctaylor738 · #9 10-31-2006, 09:04 AM

$12.5K for a tricked-up 150K mile grey market car is 'way too much. I agree that he will be doing well to get $7-8K. And I wonder how the valve guides and cams are doing at that mileage.

seo · #10 10-31-2006, 10:49 AM

"if you think those five speeds are fairly common, just try to buy one."
Last month a 300d with five speed and less than 150,000 miles sold for around $1,000 on Ebay. If these transmissions were in high demand, people would have been buying the car just to get the transmission.
I've seen that phenomenon. About ten years ago I bought a rusty mid-60's Ford Fairlane out of somebody's back yard car graveyard for $100. In amongst the rust and funk was a 50,000 mile factory stock side-oiler 427. I sold the engine for considerably more than $100. I missed once getting a rusted out TR4 with a blown engine. Not such a deal, you'd say, unless you noticed the set of Minilite Mags.
seo

seo · #11 11-04-2006, 02:11 PM

As of 2pm EST, with five hours left to go, the bid on this car is at $4,551. Ebay auctions can jump right at the end, though...
seo

t walgamuth · #12 11-04-2006, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seo

"if you think those five speeds are fairly common, just try to buy one."
Last month a 300d with five speed and less than 150,000 miles sold for around $1,000 on Ebay. If these transmissions were in high demand, people would have been buying the car just to get the transmission.
I've seen that phenomenon. About ten years ago I bought a rusty mid-60's Ford Fairlane out of somebody's back yard car graveyard for $100. In amongst the rust and funk was a 50,000 mile factory stock side-oiler 427. I sold the engine for considerably more than $100. I missed once getting a rusted out TR4 with a blown engine. Not such a deal, you'd say, unless you noticed the set of Minilite Mags.
seo

i would say someone got a good deal.... if the tranny was actually a five speed.

tom w

LaRondo · #13 11-05-2006, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seo

To my eye, this looks like a collector car:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Absolutely-Beautiful-1970-Mercedes-280-SE-Cabriolet_W0QQitemZ220039838132QQihZ012QQcategoryZ6329QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

The price seems ridiculous. But then I once declined to trade a somewhat rusty 1965 Volvo 122 for a Facel Vega, and passed up (in 1968) a Ferrari 265 Berlinetta because it was overpriced at $3,000. Oh well
seo

You're right about this 1970 280SE Cabriolet, I have seen them going for more then that....

POS · #14 11-05-2006, 08:55 AM

1) Bidding for the w123 coupe ended at $6,000. About right.
2) I wouldn't pay that much for the convertible unless it had a 3.5 engine.

seo · #15 11-07-2006, 09:11 AM

My '82 300d (natural aspirated) has a 5-speed Gertrag gearbox. It's a greymarket car, noticeable because it doesn't have yellow fog lights, It has a ball hitch with a permanent forged ball, and a 5-speed manual. It also has crank-up windows and a manual (not even a crank) sunroof. A telltale feature is that the serial number plate inside the windshield looks like it's done by hand on a little piece of aluminum, and the number starts with "WB123..." I think. The five-speed lever looks just like a four-speed's. I am told that this is actually an overdrive transmission, but don't know that. It would make sense from the point of view of limiting the number of ring&pinion sets they have to stock.
As an aside, a lot of early-80's US pickups had "4-speed" transmissions that were not the heavy-duty stump-pullers, but were actually the light-duty 3-speed with an overdrive gear built in. On the Mercedes, the manual shows the highest speed attainable is in fourth gear (direct drive) not in fifth (overdrive). This is pretty typical of overdrives. In my old days I had Triumphs, some with Laycock electric OD's, some plain four-speeds. They were quieter in OD, but went faster in fourth.
I've been told that quite a few of these greymarket cars were brought in around then, but don't know how many "quite a few" is. they've probably mostly rotted out by now, wherever they are. I wonder how you'd find them? I also wonder if these weren't more common in Germany, and available as used parts there.
Last year, I came close to buying a motor home built on a Mercedes bus, with 4cyl truck engine, 5-speed trans. Didn't do it in the end, because it was laid out for a couple, not a family of four. This model had never been imported in any number, but the builder told me that he could get any parts for them either new from Mercedes in Germany, or from used-part operations in Europe. I wonder how you'd tap into those.
seo