Chrysler Crossfire/Mercedes question - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

PULSAR GTR · #1 11-03-2006, 08:38 PM

Hi All,

I bought a Chrysler Crossfire, actually the only thing that is on the car that is Chrysler is just the badge, every thing else is made by Mercedes, so here is the question.

The car was in an accident, front end damage, the person who repaired it, had to remove the engine and tranny to repair the frame damage, the car wasn't drivable after the accident due to the severe damage.
After putting every thing together, the car is stuck in first gear (automatic transmission) and refuses to shift.

The engine light is on, so I plugged in the ObdII tester and here are the codes which I got.

P0715 Input/Turbine Speed Sensor Circuit Malfunction
P0763 Shift Solenoid C Electrical

I took the car to Chrysler, after aweek sitting there and 570 dollars, they couldn't figure out the problem, so I took it onto myself to see if I can find the problem. They told me exactly what I already know which is the two codes that I already pulled from the OBDII tester.

If some one can explain in details what the above codes exactly mean and direct me in the correct direction on trouble shooting, I would be ever greatful.

The engine is a 3.2L( it is not supercharged), automatic transmission. Both the engine, transmission and all the component on the car are stamped by Mercedes, even the ignition Key.

I have a decent knowledge of mechnics and I have a good knowledge in electronics.

Here is what I did.

I removed the tranny oil pan, removed the selonid body and ohmed out all seloniod, every thing ohmed out good.

There are two sensors which they are magnits, I don't have a good understanding on how they function, so if some can explain in details, how they work and HOW TO TEST THEM, that would be great.

My apologizes for the lengthy message, but I am getting frustrates with this problem, it has already costed me quite a bit of money.

Thank you,

Rafi

Johnhef · #2 11-03-2006, 10:43 PM

I dont recognize those exact terms chrysler uses for the codes but it sounds like the trans is in limp home mode. if the fault is for one of the solenoids built into the black plate on top of valve body, you need to replace it.

PULSAR GTR · #3 11-04-2006, 12:09 AM

actually, all the sensors and computer codes are also made by Mercedes.

I did see few selonoids/valves on the big black plate, but my question, how can I test the two magnetic circuits that are also located on that plate.

Thank you,

Rafi

ace · #4 11-04-2006, 02:09 AM

From what I have heard, the Crossfire uses a mercedes 722.6xxx transmission. Caveat: everything I will say here is based on that assumption.

You could have ohmed out all the solenoids on the solenoid valve body right from the connector on the 13 pin connector on the transmission housing (2 inch round connector with a 1/4 turn twist lock) or , from the Transmission Control Unit. Off-course you would have needed some schematics for that. I recommend you get yourself a $25 a year subscription to the alldata diy website. If they have info for the Crossfire great, if not , you can buy a subscription for any of the W210 benzes with automatic transmission. There is a post here from me from November of last year where I attached the interconnect diagram for the TCU, which may be a start for you.

The two "magnets" you are describing are Hall effect sensors (one for the input , one on the output shaft) that pick up the speed of the encoder wheels passing by in close proximty. If you look upwards into the transmission with the valve body removed, you will see the two round holes that line up with the hall effect sensors and inside them the encoder wheels.

PULSAR GTR · #5 11-04-2006, 09:19 AM

Hi Ace,

Thank you very much for the info, one more question,
1) How can I test these two magnet to see if they are working, I do have a Osciloscope, so I can meaure view the signals.

2) If either of these magnets go bad or both, what kind of symptoms would the car show, will it continue to shift or would it stay stuck in first gear, My RPM and speedo will they work?

Thanks again,

Rafi

PULSAR GTR · #6 11-04-2006, 09:38 AM

HI Ace,

One more question.

Ccan I measure these Hall effect sensors/magnits by using an OHM meter, I tried yesterday. These two magnits are mounted on a small module, this module have 4 copper tracks comming out of them, I tried ohming out every single possible combination but I couldn't get any reading( 4 tracks = 16 possible combination when trying to ohm out the hall sensors), I tried also applying a screw driver to the magnit to see if I can get a reading but still I couldn't read any resistance. Both my RPM and my speedo work when I drove the car.

Thank you,

Rafi

Mad Mick · #7 11-04-2006, 09:43 AM

Hi,

Had a similar problem on a different kind of car when I had an engine out of a rear ended car put into my own.
The main dealer couldn't sort the problem from the codes but a mechanic friend of mine spotted that two sensors were connected incorrectly in the engines air supply and this was giving wrong info to the ecu.
He swapped the connections and she ran perfectly, might be worth checking all connections to see if anything is wired wrong.

Mad Mick.

PULSAR GTR · #8 11-04-2006, 10:15 AM

Hi Mad Nick,

I will check the connections, but when, I removed the engine, I removed it as one piece with the engine harness, I did not disconnect any wiring except the one that plugs onto the tranny.

Also, were you getting the two codes I was getting?

Thanks for the info.

Rafi

STORMINORMAN · #9 11-04-2006, 11:33 AM

...and it was "repaired" by someone, correct?

If an insurance company was involved it is they who have the contractual obligation to repair the vehicle and to bring it into the condition it was in PRIOR to the accident. If the transmission worked BEFORE the accident the INSURANCE COMPANY (and, obviously, the repair facility) has the contractual obligation to repair your vehicle. This applies whether it is your insurance company or the other guy's.

I guess I don't understand the concept of "570 dollars" later at the Chrysler dealer. Not intending to be accusatory, but...

Unless this was an unfortunate case where in you were at fault in the accident, or didn't wish to submit a claim and either repaired the vehicle yourself or paid someone to have it repaired. Even in the second case you are entitled to have your vehicle repaired properly, and I would guess that being stuck in 1st gear does not constitute being repaired.

In the era of Carfax I wonder how many times something like this happens?

CAVEAT EMPTOR

Mad Mick · #10 11-04-2006, 11:38 AM

Sorry Rafi,

Different car, it was a 3 Litre V6 Opel Omega euro car, can't remember the codes but your symptoms are similar.
We changed lots of items including selector box switch etc, turned out a connector at the inlet manifold was swapped with a different sensor and this confused the ecu, left the engine management light on and sent the wrong info to the gearbox. We were getting two codes because two sensors were incorrectly connected even though they looked to be the right way.

May be unrelated to your problem but check to see if any connections could have been swapped or reversed by accident.

Good Luck.

Mad Mick.

ace · #11 11-04-2006, 11:43 AM

I would say that with 4 connections you would have 12 combinations but other than that yes, I would have expected some resistance (albeit small)measured throught the hall sensors. When you say you did not get any reading, I guess you mean zero ohms, not an open?

Back to your fault codes P763 pertains to the Y3/6Y4 shift circuit, which is the solenoid that commands the shift from 3rd to 4th gear. The resistance, through that solenoid ,measurable at the TCU between pins 15 an 38, should be in the 2.5 to 6.5 ohm range.

P715 , indicates a generic problem with a speed sensor (N2 or N3). This means either one of the sensors is faulty, or the cabling to it is faulty or , it is not being excited by the encoder wheel.

The tachometer gets its RPM's from the crankshaft sensor, I am not sure if the speedo gets its signal from the transmission output shaft sensor.

I would ohm out the wiring from the TCU to the plug on the transmission and confirm there is continuity and no shorts to ground and cross connections. There is basically no way anything could have been miswired. The connectors on the TCU are keyed and there is only one electrical connector on the transmission.

PULSAR GTR · #12 11-04-2006, 03:48 PM

Ok, regarding the car, I bought it accidented and repaired myself, thus the reason I didn't go through the insurance (auction sale).
Chrysler had the car at their shop for a week, don't ask me why, but they put the scanner on it and they told me that exactly what I know about the two codes, they said they can replace the entire tranny selonid unit for 1500 dollars, so I took the car back as they said that this might fix the problem but not 100% sure.

To ACE,

Here is what I did today.

I ohmed out the two magnits speed sensor and all 4 pins with different combinations meausred open not zero ohms.

I check the source voltage that supply all the valve seloind and I am getting 4VDC, is that correct?

Also, I managed to get the wiring diagram for the tranny section.

The two magnits have the following, one ground, one supply voltage 6VDC IS THAT CORRECT.
The other two wires are the output signal for each magnit.

I took a 4vdc and applied it directly to each selonid and I can hear the selonids clicking, which tells me that they are good.

I also took 6VDC and applied it to the two magnetics at the same time I was using a osciloscope and I used a metal screw driver to trigger the magnits by making contact with the magnits and I can see an analog wave generated at the output of each sensor, which tells me that the sensors are good as I can see the output reflecting the activation and deactivation of the magnits when I contact the magnits using a screw drive/metal object.

The ohmed out all the wires, every thing seems to be ok, I check the supply voltage on the tranny computer and it is getting a 12VDC input as well I check the ground and it is good.

So, does any one know if the output to trigger the valve selonids should be 4vdc instead of 12vdc as I am getting 4vdc.

Also, I am getting 6VDC on the magnits, is that the correct voltage.

Can you tell me if the voltage levels I have are correct.

I am starting the suspect the computer due to the measurement that I have done.

Sorry for the lengthy email.

Thanks again,

Rafi

Gilly · #13 11-04-2006, 08:50 PM

Sorry to have noticed this so late.
The transmission needs what is called the "conductor plate", this would be described as the part the solenoids attach to. It is on top of the valve body, it's the part the electrical connector attaches to. The RPM sensors are part of it.
Gilly

PULSAR GTR · #14 11-04-2006, 09:23 PM

Hi Gilly,

code P0715 indicates that I have mulfunction sensor which you are refering too, but I tried testing it while it is outside the tranny by supplying it with 6vdc and I used a scope and I can see the signal generated.
I have ordered this piece and I should have it by Tuesday, hopefully that fix the problem.

Does any one know if these valve selonids work on 4vdc or 12vdc.
Also, what about the magnetic circuit, what is the supplied voltage level, I am getting 6vdc, is this correct.

Thank you,

Rafi

STORMINORMAN · #15 11-04-2006, 09:32 PM

Mea Maxima Culpa.

myself...

Cheers!