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  #1  
Old 11-23-2006, 06:37 PM
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Auto trans to 5 speed conversion?

Don't know if this question has been asked before, or even if this is the right forum for it, but "here goes". I'm VERY interested in either:
transforming my 88 300E automatic to a 5 speed, then ordering and installing the Sportline suspension bits and keeping the car forever
OR
getting a W124 coupe ('90-'93) or sedan ('93) with Sportline and "just" converting the automatic to a 5 speed manual transmission. Now, are the 5 speeds available at all other than from a "parts" MY '86 or '88 300E? Are trannies available from Europe or is there any other way to (sort of) economically do this? IMHO this is what Mercedes SHOULD have done for enthusiasts in the North American market to compete with the M5, but never did. So what if only a few thousand would have been sold, it would have been good for image, ESPECIALLY in the early '90s when Lexus tipped the boat over.
So, any and all feedback eagerly welcomed.
Tom Reynolds
Tulsa, OK

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  #2  
Old 11-23-2006, 06:46 PM
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No idea on the conversion process. Do-able but parts probably expensive. In the 80's there were a few years where MB brought in 5 speed 124 sedans. Rare though. I know of one, but they're around but seldom seen here.
In reply to what "MB should have done", important to remember that back then MBNA specified to Daimler-Benz what type of equipment the US-bound vehicles should have (both standard and optional equipment). Still similar today except it's MBUSA and Daimler-Chrysler. Not Mercedes fault. Within reason MB would build what MBNA requested.
Gilly
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  #3  
Old 11-23-2006, 07:13 PM
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I don't know about the five-speed part of it, but you'd be better off keeping your car and converting over to Sportline than buying a Sportline, which at this age probably needs an all-new suspension anyway.
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  #4  
Old 11-23-2006, 09:11 PM
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This is going to hurt any way you do it. The most practical thing to do is find a good 86 or 88 sedan, and then restore it as they are almost all in sorry shape. A new transmission is likely available from Mercedes but the price is going to be ridiculous - more than the cost of a whole sedan or coupe. I would look into a European 5 speed coupe and then federalize it. This is not to say this is a practical idea but you would at least have a factory drive train on a rare nice car, except maybe for the rust.
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  #5  
Old 11-22-2010, 09:30 PM
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I've always wondered this myself, I've always danced around the idea of converting a automatic w124 to a manual transmission. I was told, that a manual 190E transmission will fit into a w124, and I know there are 908209384029470239 manual 190E's in on the road and in the junkyard. What's the process of that?

So you need the transmission...
Need to customize the the footwell for the pedals
You need to customize the the transmission housing but how much? since I was told the manual 190E transmission will fit.
Then the center console for the shifter.

I can't imagine it being THAT difficult, it's not like you're sawing the car in half and welding it back together...Plus I would think if you had good support from a mech and a good shop to be able to work in, it's not very difficult. Or am I missing something?
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  #6  
Old 11-23-2010, 08:27 AM
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Its very doable. 4th is the same in the auto trans. put it in 5th and its got legs. Don't expect a smooth, precision shifter. It wasn't built to speed shift, just get you through the gears up to Autobahn speeds. There is no custom work or fabrication, only intelligent grunt work involving remove and replace. Best way to do it is to have the complete 5 spd donor car parked outside. Many (but not all parts) are the same between the W201 and W124 chassis. The "not all" includes the trans crossmember, an exhaust bracket, maybe the driveshaft (or front section of it). Do a search, much information available. Again, the best way do it is to have the complete 5 spd donor car.
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  #7  
Old 11-23-2010, 02:57 PM
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There were about 700 300E's brought to the US in MY '86 and about 300 of them in MY '88. I have an '88 with a five speed that I bought in 1997. The five speed absolutely transforms the 124 Benz.

If you can find a donor car so that you have all the tiny bits, this is a very doable conversion, but I personally wouldn't do it unless I had access to the entire donor car until the project is complete.
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  #8  
Old 11-24-2010, 11:01 AM
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Tons of 80s BMW people convert autos to manuals, it is not a big deal at all.

Most importantly you need:

Trans
Driveshaft (probably just have one modified, NOT a big deal)
Pedal box
Flywheel
Clutch/TOB/Pressure plate (I would go new)
Master/clutch slaves + hoses (buy hoses new)
Shifter assy



Use the online EPC from MB to see what parts fit between the 190E and 300E.



I have been heavily thinking about doing this to my 300SEL. The pedal box and center console area I would import. The rest is available here in the US. After driving my 735i that is a five speed, the M103 stuck in the W126 would be a far better car with a manual box.
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  #9  
Old 11-24-2010, 05:30 PM
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Along these lines I was wondering how hard it would be to convert a W211 body like an '07 E350 to a 6-speed? Wouldn't the 2001 and up C240 sedan or C230 coupe 6-speed tranny bolt right in? A wrecked late model 6-spd. parts car like that would be a lot easier to find than an old '86-'88 300E.
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  #10  
Old 11-24-2010, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atikovi View Post
Along these lines I was wondering how hard it would be to convert a W211 body like an '07 E350 to a 6-speed? Wouldn't the 2001 and up C240 sedan or C230 coupe 6-speed tranny bolt right in? A wrecked late model 6-spd. parts car like that would be a lot easier to find than an old '86-'88 300E.


I would be willing to be there is going to be a lot more hurdles... how are you going to trick the PCM into believing the auto is still there?

Modern vehicles run that Can-bus where just about everything is linked together.
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I'm not a doctor, but I'll have a look.

'85 300SD 245k
'87 300SDL 251k
'90 300SEL 326k

Six others from BMW, GM, and Ford.

Liberty will not descend to a people; a people must raise themselves to liberty.
[/IMG]
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  #11  
Old 11-24-2010, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hit Man X View Post
... how are you going to trick the PCM into believing the auto is still there?

Modern vehicles run that Can-bus where just about everything is linked together.
I would think with a Star scanner you could program the PCM to accept the manual transmission. Or any 2-bit hacker could figure something out. Or you could use the 6-spd PCM?
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  #12  
Old 11-24-2010, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hit Man X View Post
I would be willing to be there is going to be a lot more hurdles... how are you going to trick the PCM into believing the auto is still there?

Modern vehicles run that Can-bus where just about everything is linked together.
Exactly right. Once you get into ECM/PCM cars the firmware will be a huge part of the challenge.
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  #13  
Old 11-25-2010, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atikovi View Post
Along these lines I was wondering how hard it would be to convert a W211 body like an '07 E350 to a 6-speed? Wouldn't the 2001 and up C240 sedan or C230 coupe 6-speed tranny bolt right in? A wrecked late model 6-spd. parts car like that would be a lot easier to find than an old '86-'88 300E.
Its actually a bit more involved that just coding it out.



There are a few sensors in the transmission that the ECU relies on, and are not in the manual transmission unit.



I have been working with a friend who is an MB tech, and we are trying to cook up a way to code out/trick those sensors on his W211 E55 so we can convert it to a 6 speed manual.
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  #14  
Old 11-25-2010, 10:17 PM
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BTW - I am also looking to do a manual transmission conversion to my W124, but am trying to use a 6 speed gearbox.
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  #15  
Old 11-26-2010, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwrock View Post
Its actually a bit more involved that just coding it out.

There are a few sensors in the transmission that the ECU relies on, and are not in the manual transmission unit.

I have been working with a friend who is an MB tech, and we are trying to cook up a way to code out/trick those sensors on his W211 E55 so we can convert it to a 6 speed manual.


I can change over my GM truck... but I use EFI Live to tune it which accesses just about everything you can think of AND then some within the PCM. I do not believe the GM Tech II unit is able to do this (which sounds like the MB Star unit).

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'85 300SD 245k
'87 300SDL 251k
'90 300SEL 326k

Six others from BMW, GM, and Ford.

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