Is this common with all 210's??? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

JetTech · #1 02-05-2007, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cool

don't listen to those unfounded ideas about having to change your oil so often, its crazy, what you have are sludge yes your internal engine mechanical system needs to be checked, you might have a compression problem, give more data, does the openning area blow out oil when you run the engine while the cap is off?

Wow cool, you do speak your mind now don't you???

tobybul · #2 02-06-2007, 06:46 PM

This is a tough call.... you can say condensation but until some test is performed to eliminate a head gasket or breach between the jackets and the engine......tough call... I would lean more to the head gasket until proven otherwise, imho.

First off, I think thats an awful lot of cream build-up at that spot.

I test drove a W201 89 190e 2.6 today with 192k and I noticed the same under the oil fill cap also. So, is it from short trips?

How about some input from the guru's?

Hirnbeiss · #3 02-06-2007, 07:53 PM

Just as bad as JT, and it's definitely from condensation as opposed to a coolant leak.

I drive mine 40 minutes a day, and it's garage-kept at night. Given that the 112's & 113's had sludge problems too, I'd guess it's due to some combination of poor crankcase ventilation and cold block spots which promote condensation vs. other engine designs.

barry123400 · #4 02-07-2007, 11:15 AM

Oil operating temperature is perhaps sub standard on these engines while operating? Has to reach at least 250 degrees to clear the oil. If these engines have oil coolers they are too efficient or the thermostat to put the cooler on line has a wrong value or is non existant. Oil does not boil till about 600 degrees if I remember.
Mercedes could have cheated on design and are trying to remove too much heat from the oil. Really hot oil is probably not a good thing but neither is oil running too cool. The gentleman running 40 miles each way does raise this as a possibility in my mind. I would contact mercedes and talk to them. Almost indicates this engine should not have an oil cooler if it has. I do not know anything about this engine I freely confess.
Also if crankcase ventalation is that tight and it is really the problem it should be modified to preform it's function. A straight road tube modification would be vastly superior in my mind.
Sounds like perhaps some poor design issues here. What is baffling is this area of engine design is so old how could they mess up this bad? A very junior engine engineer would catch it in the engines development stage. Does this company no longer care?

barry123400 · #5 02-07-2007, 12:11 PM

The more I thought about this the more serious a problem I considered it might be. I would pull the oil out the dip stick tube and put a litre or two into a calabrated metal container. This I might do at the half way point between normal oil changes. You might get by with a measuring stick as well.
Raise the container to four hundred degrees. I would not use an open flame but cautiously use something like an old electric hotplate. Outside well clear of houses etc of course. I am really concerned about a safety hazzard here. It might be better for the test to use about a pint of oil for example. Keep the oil about 400 degrees for about 1/2 hour. Read your level after it cools again. Calculate the amount percentagewise of contaminates boiled off.
Talk to mercedes at higher than dealer level. Talk to lubrication oil supply people as well. That is if the level drops off somewhat.
You cannot expect really long life of the engines if there is too much in the oil. The experts will know the tollerance allowance. Water in the oil will damage bearings as far as I know. Developing sludge might even oil starve something in the oil circuit as well.
If for whatever reason the charactaristic of these engines cannot be defeated by modification. I would consider extracting all the oil periodically between oil changes I could get out the dip stick tube. Heat it up to boil off the water etc. and pour it back into the engine. Filtering it of course.
So much depends on what the lubrication experts have to say. Certainly a pain in the posterior. I would much rather just try a road tube crankcase ventallation system attempt first. Or if these engines have an oil cooler investigate that and the operating oil temperature. Any of these methods might extend your engine life signifigantly. No I do not think the sky is falling. But moisture especially in the oil is a known bad condition.
I again am not an expert in any way. Even hope I am wrong in my beliefs in this area. Or the problem is not as great as I suspect.

skhagen · #6 03-03-2007, 02:49 AM

If you can find no mechanical explination. Try this product. You can find it at any truck stop.

I wouldnt quite on the car yet.

In Minnesota and Wisconsin winters, what you see is in many engines all winter long. The real problems arrise when upper engine components dont get sufficient lubrication due to contaminated oil. BAD

Rislone obsorbs and disipates moisture vapor and sludge in deisel fuel and engine oil, also improves lubrication. If used in a clean engine known to be susceptable, it will stop sludge from forming.

This is a common problem with large sump engines that dont get driven to full operating temp. regularly or in your case a engine that isnt working very hard very long.

With no coolant consumption it doesnt sound like a gasket leak.

It is true as stated in previouse post ring blow by or poor crank vacum can cause this. It is like a air compressor drawing undried air, high (Head)and low (sump)temps under pressure create condensation. DEW point generators work on this principal. The additive will help disipate the moisture as it forms.

The oil consumption could be caused by the dilution of the oil.

Just my .02

Parrot of Doom · #7 02-05-2007, 02:15 PM

Well there are people here who change their fully synthetic oil every 5000 miles. That is rather silly.

JetTech · #8 02-07-2007, 04:44 PM

Hi Barry and thanks for replying. At some point this weekend I'm going to change the oil that's in it and send off a sample to blackstone labs to see what all is in it. I'll be sure to post the sample report as soon as they send it back. It usually takes about 5 to 7 business days for them to e-mail me the results, so look for a follow-up in about a week and a half.

JetTech · #9 03-19-2007, 05:56 PM

Ok all, I finally received the oil sample results from blackstone. As most everyone suspected it was just moisture and not anti-freeze building up under the oil cap. I wanted to do the sample for not only peace of mind but to see how the engine was doing. It came back pretty good except for a noted high aluminum reading....hmmmm, not sure about that one but I'm going to do another sample in a few thousand miles to see if it is trending upwards or just a single event.

So here it is....all comments are welcome!!!

Hirnbeiss · #10 03-19-2007, 07:39 PM

Just like this Ramblin Wreck predicted. Go Jackets!

tobybul · #11 03-19-2007, 08:33 PM

jt, whats a test like that cost?

JetTech · #12 03-20-2007, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tobybul

jt, whats a test like that cost?

Blackstone charges $20 for the test you're seeing and $25 if you want a TBN number. I didn't bother with the TBN because I had less then 3K miles on the oil. It appears the Rotella T Synthetic held up quite well and would be a good oil to try for extended oil drains. I would have to assume the rather high Iron number is caused by my fuel dilution and short tripping whereas I haven't had time to find out why the Aluminum was kind of high. As soon as I do some research I'll be sure to report back.