And yet another 210 Brain Teaser?? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

JetTech · #1 02-05-2007, 05:30 PM

Ok, let me set the stage first. 2000 E320 with 98500 miles. Last night while driving home, the interstate looked like Moses had parted the traffic waters, no one around. So I figure this is a good time to "heat'er" up a bit and burn off some of that moisture I've been finding under my oil cap lately. I proceed to flat foot the old girl and run the piss out of it. I slowed several times where I knew the local PD liked to hang out then would go back to my flat footed position. After about 15 minutes of doing this, I'm headed up a hill well north of the century mark, and all of a sudden I lose power and the check engine light comes on. I hit the next exit and limp it into a gas station. Open the hood and look around...NOTHING....didn't smell to hot, nothing unusual looking, the engine is stumbling like crazy though. So I shut it off, start it up, back to all 6 cylinders......ahhhhhh, so I'm only about 8 miles from home and think, what ta heck, it's not knocking or making any bad mechanical sounds, so off I go. I babied it onto the interstate and ran it about 70. Approx. a mile from my exit I put her to the floor again and around 4K rpms, it does the same thing, I lose several cylinders. I come to the exit light, shut it off, start it back up, we're now back to all 6 firing.

So I have my wife drop it off at my local indie to read the codes. I had P0300, P0301, P0302, and P0303. Those are all mis-fire codes for the right bank (cylinders 1-3). The indie wants to change the wires for the small fee of $562

, I promptly declined his generous offer and just had him clear the codes.

I get it home this afternoon and start checking stuff over to see why I lost the right bank. I removed a plug from each cylinder (they only have 1K miles on them), they all looked perfect or should I say identical. I did a resistance check of all 12 wires, they ranged from 2 to 4 ohms. There is no checking the coils but what are the chances of all 3 being bad, pretty slim in my book.

So that leads me to this thread. I can't think of any reason why I would lose my entire right bank of cylinders. At first I thought wiring harness to the coils, I can't really check it but all of the wires look fine at the connectors, no insulation cracking.

To sum things up, I'm losing all 3 coils on the right bank under high heat and speed.

Any ideas???? My indie is scratching his head too....

Thanks all............

Dale

manny · #2 02-05-2007, 05:48 PM

Simple, your fine automobile is protesting the fact that you're abusing it ( that's driving the crap out of it in Georgia speak ).

Losing a whole bank of cylinders would almost make me think ECM ?

JetTech · #3 02-05-2007, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manny

Simple, your fine automobile is protesting the fact that you're abusing it ( that's driving the crap out of it in Georgia speak ).

Losing a whole bank of cylinders would almost make me think ECM ?

C'mon Manny, that's not abuse....

Heck the 95 E320 I had would stay right at the speedlimiter for miles out on route 16 headed to Savannah. Abuse my.....well, you know what I was going to say...

JetTech · #4 02-05-2007, 06:21 PM

Lets consider your ECM theory Manny. Why would it shut down the right bank?? Lean perhaps? If that was the case wouldn't I have gotten a lean code as well? Would the ECM shut that bank down from excessive heat perhaps? One of my thoughts was maybe a clogged right bank cat, but there was nothing glowing red when I opened the hood. As of this moment the car is running perfect, I'm a little reluctant to "Abuse" it until I figure out what caused the CEL to come on as you can imagine. I don't know, I'm really at a loss with this teaser....my head hurts....

Hatterasguy · #5 02-05-2007, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manny

Simple, your fine automobile is protesting the fact that you're abusing it ( that's driving the crap out of it in Georgia speak ).

Losing a whole bank of cylinders would almost make me think ECM ?

Bah thats how you are supposed to drive a Mercedes.

Shot in the dark but what about the EGR?

JetTech · #6 02-05-2007, 06:33 PM

Ok, let me add one more thing for those of you who might be thinking about this teaser. Approx. 1K miles ago I changed the plugs and installed the NGK's vs. the Boschs. $45 vs. $98. Now I know how finicky these cars are to plugs, does anyone consider this a possibility? I can't imagine only one bank of plugs would go south on me but does anyone think that's possible? If so I'll order the Bosch's tonight!!

JetTech · #7 02-05-2007, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

Bah thats how you are supposed to drive a Mercedes.

Shot in the dark but what about the EGR?

hmmmm, EGR?? Isn't there only one EGR valve on this car? If there was one for each bank that might be possible, although the EGR is monitored by the ECU and will throw a code if its out of range. I dunno.....

Hatterasguy · #8 02-05-2007, 06:41 PM

See I'm not familer with that engine. On the V12(M120) there is an EGR on each bank, and they can cause a missfire and lean/rich running conditions.

JetTech · #9 02-05-2007, 06:52 PM

See I'm still in the learning mode as well. I got quite familiar with the engine in the 95 E320 I had but this one is still fairly new to me. I have access to ALLDATA at work, tomorrow I'll see if there are 2 EGR's because if there is I believe that might fall into the possibility category.

Parrot of Doom · #10 02-05-2007, 07:20 PM

If the coil packs and leads are the same part number on each bank, swap them all over.

Simple to do, and if the fault moves over to the other bank you know where the problem lies. If it doesn't, then its not the coils or leads. Then try the spark plugs.

Also, seeing as how you have a problem with crap accumulating under the oil filler cap, it may be prudent to consider the possibility that you have a cooling problem on one side of the engine.

I would think carefully before 'testing' her again.

Johnhef · #11 02-05-2007, 08:12 PM

think about whats specific to that particular bank that could be causing out of range values to make it shut the cylinders down. o2 sensors, vacuum leak on that bank, etc. its probabaly not air mass since its only one side. its not going to be EGR either.

you can rule out your wires by swapping them left to right sides, but thats not going to change it either, your problem will still be on the right side. Myself, I'd go the route of the vac leak first.

on a rare occaision I've had the crank sensor cause a problem similar to this, but I only had it on one cylinder when I would get on it hard (on an ML320). it drove me nuts trying to trace it.

manny · #12 02-05-2007, 08:48 PM

Dale,

Have a look at this thread as well:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=153330&highlight=301

JetTech · #13 02-06-2007, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manny

Dale,

Have a look at this thread as well:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=153330&highlight=301

Thanks for the link manny, I read that one earlier in the day but the results seem to be inconclusive. Several things were changed at once not really pinning down the exact cause.

JetTech · #14 02-06-2007, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnhef

think about whats specific to that particular bank that could be causing out of range values to make it shut the cylinders down. o2 sensors, vacuum leak on that bank, etc. its probabaly not air mass since its only one side. its not going to be EGR either.

you can rule out your wires by swapping them left to right sides, but thats not going to change it either, your problem will still be on the right side. Myself, I'd go the route of the vac leak first.

on a rare occaision I've had the crank sensor cause a problem similar to this, but I only had it on one cylinder when I would get on it hard (on an ML320). it drove me nuts trying to trace it.

Vacuum leak huh??? hmmmm, seems as though I remember from an initial inspection I had done on the car from my local MB dealer, that there was a hose somewhere on the intake duct that needed to be replaced. I asked them if it needed to be replaced at that time but they said it could wait a while. I wonder which hose they were talking about. Thanks for the idea John, you just made me remember that the dealer did note an intake hose that needed replacement.....I'll have to go out once it warms up a bit and do some more looking. I'll be sure to report back after I look her over.

Thanks everyone for the ideas so far and for your help. I wouldn't have been able to get this far without you all.

Dale

Hirnbeiss · #15 02-06-2007, 10:43 AM

I know on my M113 the access is a real pain, so getting enough force on the plug cap to snap it back on is tough.