400e purchase help for newbie - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

mus · #1 05-09-2007, 05:58 PM

Hi all, I am new but hope I might be around for a while. I have a question about purchasing one of these w124 s

1992
400e Black with grey leather interior
180,000 miles (mostly highway)

well taken care of. garaged day and night. exterior in very good shape, normal tiny rock chips on front and headlights. small scratch on door (1inch); interior great as well; no cracks in leather, wood. side pockets pulling away a bit. otherwise fantastic

Everything interior works. even stereo (cd changer OEM) works great. built in radar detector even works.

Same mechanic has taken care of car for 10 years. Took it to him. Seems like very good guy; runs independent merc shop. Very upfront. Good review of car though he kept reminding me that its a lot of mileage and any car with that kind of mileage has some risk. His summary: car been very well kept and serviced; tiny oil leak, tiny trans leak, tiny powersteering leak which he says are pretty typical for car of this age and do not need attention at moment. Needs new belt tensioner ($3-400), new front tires, new radio antenna. Soon will need central exhaust pipe($400). Shifts fine now, no lag on reverse, etc. though at 180k, who knows how much longer its good. Otherwise, everything that needs to by replaced typically has been, including AC, PS, radiator, wiring harness, etc.

the timing chain has been replaced and mechanic says its fine.

I am pretty sure the AC compressor and or condenser has been changed. I have to admit my head swam a bit going through all the repair records and I think I cant read my writing. at least one has been fixed. perhaps both. the ac blower mount and ac clutch also repaired. I think the ac has had some serious work done.

I drive 5-6k a year at present. I LOVE old mercs (used to drive a 1977 300D before I moved out of the country for years and sold it). I am willing and can afford to put away $1200-2000 a year for repairs on average, because, as I see it, gets me a far nicer car than the equivalent new car.

What is a reasonable life-span for these cars?

what should this car be selling for privately, IYO? $4200

THANKS!

Jim B. · #2 05-09-2007, 06:48 PM

Welcome aboard!!!!

For more information, search "400E" and read other opinions.

Generally, the 400E is a GREAT, really great, car. It's about 75% of what the fabulous E500 is, which is a beautifully balanced sport sedan, and many people believe the W124 series cars are the last of the cost be damned, built to the highest standard mid size Mercedes, as dictated by the engineers, and not the bean counters, (as today newer Mercedes models are).

Their successor, the 1996 W210 series, had lots more electronics in them, and those parts did tend to give trouble, though not to take away the fact the W210 is very roomy, comfortable and smooth, though they tended to rust, in the spring perch and other areas.

But the 400E is a real tiger, it's very quick, and handles, corners and brakes VERY impressively, and will last for hundreds of thousands of miles if it's taken care of. The build quality is superb, and these cars are engineered to travel at their top speed all day long. These aren't just political promises either. Ask it to go----floor it at 80 mph------and it'll GO!!!

As to this particular example you are considering: You have done your due diligence, and had the car looked over carefully.

The miles, over 180k, might seem high, but you have said that they were mostly highway ones, which are better than a lower mileage car with mostly city and stop and go driving or short trips.

There is a verified service service history, which apparently shows the car has had good care, and the body is in good condition, I am assuming it is rust free and not a refugee from a freeway pileup that was rebuilt.

The problem typical problem areas, such as the wiring harness, air conditioner, and head gasket leaks, have been addressed or ar not a problem.
Therefore, there is nothing really wrong with the car. These cars are really, really, bulletproof, needing only the ocassional fluid and oil changes, and normal things like brake pads, batteries, shocks, tires and such from time to time.

The power steering gear box may need replacing, or the O rings on the PS pump, but at 180k, that's normal wear and tear, like replacing motor mounts if needed.

The small leaks mentioned can be monitored and addressed later, just keep an eye out. I'd re-read the service records carefully, to see for example, that
the timing chain, tensioner and guide rails were all replaced, as all should have been.

The mechanic correctly pointed out that this is a mechanical device, and as such, things will wear out eventually, so you need to be prepared for this.

But it sounds like the car has been given an overall clean bill of health.

A couple of more things, first, black is a very desirable color for these cars, although a nuisance to keep clean, and also the 400E was a relative rarity in 1992 compared to the ubiquitous 300E, of which there were so many.

With the diesel engine in them, they were the German taxicab, so they were built to take terrific abuse and still run hundreds of thousands of miles, and they are a VERY very good car, sturdy, and durable.

At $4,200, I would leap at the car. It's a very fair price for what you are getting, so long as it is rust and wreck free, and is as you have described it.

Just for fun you could try and hammer him a little bit, ask if he'd take $4000 cash in hand, but I would pay the full asking price of $4200 if he wouldn't.

If you are only going to travel 6,000-7,000 miles a year, it's not out of the question that even with 180,000 miles on it now, you could still expect to get 15-20 more years out of the car.

Don't forget too, if it ever runs out of gas, gets a flat tire, or a dead battery, any Mercedes owner can simply call 1-800-FORMERCEDES and they will send a truck out from the dealer (or a contracted tow truck in rural areas) and get you going, for FREE! It's a wonderful benefit for ANY Benz owner.

I would buy this car right away if I were you

For comfort, safety and even longer life I'd suggest you look into a set of quality fitted 2 piece sheepskin covers for the front seats (www.ramsheadusa.com), a pair of front Macneill "Weathertech" black rubber floormats, and a set of european headlights (beautiful, 60% better light output and better beam pattern) and perhaps an upgraded stereo system if you want it.)

mus · #3 05-09-2007, 09:31 PM

thanks.

I think I already hammered him. he was asking $5500, then volenteered 5300 because of the antenna. the mechanic suggested that was way too much, and that I offer $3000 to see what would happen and $4200 was the counter offer.

So my quandary is, ask for even less again or go for it. I think i guess you answer

speace · #4 05-09-2007, 09:54 PM

I think 4200 is a great price if the condition is indeed as good as it sounds. Yes, it has some age, yes, there are a few problems, The antenna mast is under 100.00 The maintenance records are typical. I know I have done all of that to mine and more. Mine sat outside and the clear-coat is damaged. I need motor mounts and have a power steering leak. The map pockets come unglued and can be fixed with some glue and clamps. I have about 235k on mine and would be glad to get 4000 for it. (Any takers!)

These cars are sleepers! The 400E has first gear start, electronic fuel injection and R134 in the A/C. The 92 is especially spry in that MB did not stick to the emissions requrements at wide open throttle. For that reason the 93 model has an ECU that is more tame but I heard has a little higher compression to make up for it. Some 93 owners have sought out the 92 ECU...

mus · #5 05-09-2007, 09:58 PM

okay, went for it. $4000.

wish me luck...deep breath...great sense of excitement with some sense of impending doom.

Jim B. · #6 05-09-2007, 10:16 PM

So, did you did it for $4,000? Did he take $4,000? That's a good deal, it sounds like to me, if he did! I wouldn't worry at all, it's a good price, real good.

You even are set up with a good mechanic who you can trust and knows the car well, and could help you take care of it! Sounds just great to me!!!

This was a really good car when new, over $50,000, I think, You will really enjoy this car, and be safe and comfortable, and a bit stylish in it.

mus · #7 05-09-2007, 10:20 PM

yes exactly. I will post pictures this weekend. I pick it up Saturday. and yeah, its got some style.

everyone who saw it said it was me.

Jim B. · #8 05-09-2007, 10:29 PM

Congrats to you! This will be great! You probably know this, but it's a real good idea if you are replacing two tires, make sure they are the same size and brand as the others already on there, and have them spin balanced, and spend the extra $75 or so and get a four wheel alignment. When it's time for the exhaust, be sure to get Mercedes Benz rubber muffler hangars, not the cheap rubber autozone round donut ones. I learned this this hard way, the Mercedes ones are only a few dollars more, and they really are tough, what you will need.

Looking forward to pictures! Again, you did very well. You likely won't need another car for a long, long, long time!l

mus · #9 05-09-2007, 10:40 PM

thanks jim. all i can say is that I hope I am as enthusiastic as you are. I do love the car right now. its simply classic. did I mention built in radar detector that works? crazy...

Larry Delor · #10 05-09-2007, 11:04 PM

You'll like it. Keep up on maintainace items like caps and rotors - do NOT let them get too worn.

iwrock · #11 05-09-2007, 11:08 PM

Youll love it! A great car! I had one, and it impressed just about everyone who drove it! In many instances, its better than many new cars!

mus · #12 05-09-2007, 11:21 PM

i agree. i was at carmax getting a quote for the sale of my old car and sat in a lot of more recent cars, including a more recent merc c class. and i have to say, i like the 1992 e better as an interior look and quality.

speaking of which:

what does everyone recommend in terms of wax, car washing, and interior leather and dash care? I want to make sure I use the right stuff to keep the car in this kind of shape. hmmm...sounds like a new thread, or maybe I should go looking.

#13 05-10-2007, 07:37 AM

Congratulations. Where are you all located that 400e's are selling for those prices?

I bought a '92 in January with the following history:

130,000 miles, smoke silver on mushroom leather
NO slip control
Garaged since new
2 owners, I was able to get in touch w/ the original owner and speak w/ him.
Wiring harness replaced
New radiator
New motor mounts (expensive on the M119!)
Timing chain replaced at 110K
Tires at 120K
A big stack of service receipts all of which I cannot remember at present

Seller was asking $4900 and I got the car for $4500. I think I nearly stole this car b/c it looks as though it could have come off the showroom floor a year ago, except for the various & sundry coffee stains on the carpet, which show up unfortunately well on that mushroom color. A good steaming should get them out. Seller was a good guy and a long-time MB driver who really wanted to sell the car fast. He got his wish - I bought it on my second viewing.

You are going to love that car. If you drive it conservatively around town you can see 22 MPG. Then again, it is hard to drive conservatively! These cars feel like what they were when new - a VERY expensive piece of machinery. 270 HP I believe to be a conservative rating - the car feels a good bit faster than that.

One thing I love about the 400E is that it costs no more to operate than the 300E - fuel mileage is only 1-2 MPG poorer. Makes me wonder why anyone would have bought the 300E new, then I remembered that there was a roughly $10K (!!!!) price differential.

The only thing that I need to address on mine is a blown rear speaker and I need the trim piece that covers the tow hook on the front air dam. That's it.

The one thing you must watch on these cars is the temp gauge. That M119 is really stuffed in there so these cars tend to run a little hotter than average. If your cooling system is not up to snuff the car WILL run hot, and that is not good. The M119 might be one of the most robust gasoline motors that MB has produced in recent memory, and the only ways I know to kill one is to run it hot or run it w/o oil. Don't let that happen to you!

Mercedes makes a leather cleaner and a leather conditioner. I'd recommend using that - check w/ Phil @ Fastlane.

PM me w/ any other questions and congratulations.

deanyel · #14 05-10-2007, 10:48 AM

I think the market for nice 124s might be firming up - perhaps because people are becoming frustrated with the repairability of some of the newer cars. I see nice 124s in the $5k to $7k range selling fairly quickly. But there is a lot of junk out there - 80 or 90 percent of the cars are rough mechanically, cosmetically or both. It's nearly impossible to sell such a car and not prudent to buy one, at any price, given the small price difference for a nice one. A wholesaler told me the other day that rough older MBs are getting shipped overseas to places with lower priced labor, which makes sense, nobody here wants them and you can only part out so many cars.

lee polowczuk · #15 05-10-2007, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deanyel

I think the market for nice 124s might be firming up - perhaps because people are becoming frustrated with the repairability of some of the newer cars. I see nice 124s in the $5k to $7k range selling fairly quickly. But there is a lot of junk out there - 80 or 90 percent of the cars are rough mechanically, cosmetically or both. It's nearly impossible to sell such a car and not prudent to buy one, at any price, given the small price difference for a nice one. A wholesaler told me the other day that rough older MBs are getting shipped overseas to places with lower priced labor, which makes sense, nobody here wants them and you can only part out so many cars.

you must be talking about 400e 124's... it's pretty easy to pay 3k-3500 for a 300e in decent shape....