Incorrect Transmission Fluid - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

SLickmann · #1 07-14-2007, 07:10 PM

I'm new to this forum and I'm hoping someone can help with this. I have a 2000 S500 which gets serviced regularly at an independent Mercedes shop. He recommended a transmission flush when I recently took the car in for regular servicing. The car has 55k. I assumed he would put Mercedes transmission fluid in, but found out afterwards he used some other brand. It was BG brand I think he said. I was told it was just as good and was a much better price. I'm concerned this is not the right fluid and it should have Mercedes fluid. Should I have another flush only this time with Mercedes fluid? Does anyone know if this BG fluid will damage my transmission systems?

Advice on this is much appreciated.

S. Lickmann
Michigan

Mike Murrell · #2 07-14-2007, 10:57 PM

Go to the following URL for a view of all BG transmission products.

http://www.bgprod.com/products/transmission.html

They make a lot of cleaner & flushes for various automotive components.

At the bottom of this URL is some info on their synthetic transmission fluid. They claim it's for all automobiles. I'm not sure what MB engineers would have to say about this.

It's entirely possible that your tech used one of their cleaner/flush products, followed by a refill of a more conventional transmission fluid.

Print the info at the URL and ask your tech what he did.

I'm not a big snake oil fan, but I can tell you from personal experience that this company makes first rate products. They have a fuel system cleaner known as BG 44K that will knock the snot out of your FI system.

jeff-abalone · #3 07-15-2007, 02:16 AM

If it is my car, i will drain all out and put MB tranny fluid again.

Just for safe!!!!

spit64 · #4 07-15-2007, 07:16 AM

This oil seems to be a high quality oil and I don't think there would be any problem I think it's compality with the new dexronVI if the oil is a BG ATC Plus

SLickmann · #5 07-15-2007, 05:00 PM

Thanks guys for all your comments. I've had a chance to research this online and here's what I found out about the various transmission fluids:

1. Mercedes has a technical book on this and its recommendations include those for automatic transmission fluid. They all fall under the listing on page 236.XX of their technical manual on the subject (couldn't find online). The extension XX equates to either a 6, 7, 8, 1 or 1.2 and these extensions refer to certain additives which have been tested and approved by Mercedes and which are mixed into the base 236 fluid to make it right for different transmissions. My transmission is a 5 speed automatic.

2. It is my understanding that the primary (perhaps exclusive) manufacturers of Mercedes labeled fluid are Fuchs (Germany) and Shell. The Fuchs website was very helpful in going into details for specific models and years: http:/www.fuchs-europe.de/1712.html . When you get there, go to the tab on top for oil choices and it will take you to page which will let you insert your make, model and year. Once that is done, it will show you the correct Fuchs AFT to use. For four speed transmissions there are two or three selections based on the extension applicable to your car. These are non-synthetic fluids. It appears Fuchs Titan 3000 is one of these and it apparently similar to Dexron II(D) based on their chart. Fuchs Titan 4000 is another and is similar to Dexron III(H). Fuchs 5000 SL is a fully synthetic fluid made for 236.8, which is what I believe my 2000(S) falls under. However, the site did not confirm this. It did confirm that I can use Fuchs 3353 which is new generation synthetic fluid made for the new 7 speed Mercedes transmission but is also being used for the 5 speed transmissions which would include those which I have concluded were most likely originally filled at the factory with Fuchs Titan 5000 SL. I suspect what Mercedes is now using on all 5 and 7 speed transmissions and calling their proprietary fluid is in fact the 3353, which are supposedly being manufactured by both Fuchs and Shell. I don't know if Fuchs is available in the U.S. The nuances among different brands of fully synthetic fluid are the additives they include to try and mimic the Mercedes (i.e., Fuchs/Shell) formula in their 3353 product. Apparently Fuchs is not distributed in the US to the public and it appears to be marketed only outside the US, but I could be wrong on this. It may be just as pricey if it could be purchased here, don't know but I would think not. Shell produces this product on its own label as Shell 3353 and the technical details can be found at this website: http://www.shell.com/home/page/us-en/shell_for_businesses/oils_lubricants/automotive/app_automotive_automotive_products.html. When you go to the Shell website, you will find their 3353 was made just for the new generation Mercedes -- the new transmissions with 7 speeds (like the new E-Class) but can be used for the 5 speed transmissions as well. The Shell technical details shown for the 3353 (same link) goes so far as to indicate that the Shell 3353 was developed for initial fill and use on the new 7 speed Mercedes. It looks like the only way to get the Shell 3353 is through your local distributor. Mine is 18 miles away. Your nearest distributor may be found at the above website with a little bit of navigating. I don't know, but would guess the Shell 3353 is a lot less expensive that the Mercedes labeled 3353. The 3353, whether Shell or Fuchs would appear from the write-ups to be a superior formula for the 5 speed Mercedes transmission models over the factory fill for the 5 speed. This is what I have concluded based on my interest in this. I don't believe the BG brand that was put in my car has the same additive or combo of additives to make it the same as the genuine 3353 article, but not sure of this since there's so little info on the BG website about their synthetic fluid. This is because it is a "one size fits all" type of synthetic fluid. That kind of marketing ploy seems very suspicious. On the other hand they seem to have a good following and reputation. Perhaps they've used all the possible additives just to cover all bases, but who knows, and who knows what the effects of that may be. Be careful before relying on any of this. I'd still only use Mercedes fluid just to be safe. Mine will be changed out this time using Mercedes fluid. I'm glad I looked into this. I was: (1) curious about whether the BG would work in my car, and (2) try and determine how this 'proprietary fluid' business shakes out. I suspected that Mercedes didn't make its own fluid. It just wouldn't make sense since, as I also discovered, they sub many if not all of their transmissions out also now.

spit64 · #6 07-16-2007, 03:15 AM

I think that after your car was build in 2000 the oil has been improved and that the oil the mechanic used in your car is even better than the reccommended oil.

mbdoc · #7 07-16-2007, 07:58 AM

Short term use most likely wouldn't have any problems..BUT the additives package in the OE fluid is slightly different than ANY other fluid & is designed for the friction material in YOUR transmission.

SLickmann · #8 07-16-2007, 08:32 AM

It would seem almost certain that the code number 3353 which in on certain labels of the Mercedes, Fuchs, and Shell fluids are identical and made to the same exact factory specifications. Again, there is very strong evidence that Fuchs and Shell are the exclusive producers of the Mercedes labeled-fluids bearing the number 3353. In the unlikely absence of a contractual role with Mercedes, it would be far too soon to expect Shell and Fuchs to have conceived of the need for this particular fluid from a revenue perspective if they did not have a major role in the product's conceptualization, development and production. This code number represents the Mercedes-required additives which are uniquely suited to the Mercedes 7 speed transmission based on the Factory's testing and analysis. It would be highly improbable IMHO that there is any other additive in this formulation which is different simply because one bottle carries the Mercedes label. The markup on the Mercedes labeled product only adds impetus to the intentional marketing "exclusivity" of the Mercedes labeled product and would discourage many owners from using the Fuchs or Shell labeled product which carries the identical code number. However, this Mercedes strategy does not change the common chemical characteristics of the product, regardless of which of the three brand labels we're talking about. As I previously mentioned, the Shell technical literature even goes so far as to indicate that its own Shell 3353 was designed for initial fill of the Merc 7-speed. This equates to Shell basically telling the world that it's 3353 is being used by the Factory as the initial fill on its new 7-speed automobiles, regardless of whose logo appears on the label. It would be highly irregular for a company with the international status and size of Shell to make such a claim without the factual and/or contractual evidence to back up the claim. It did not appear that Shell was making this statement to dazzle the Mercedes community or to boost its own sales of the product. It seemed merely to making a statement of fact so potential users of the product would be aware that it is the bona fide product for customers with Merc. 7 speed transmissions who require the 3353 fluid. Obviously, the financial success of Shell is not riding on the sales of transmission fluid.

SLickmann · #9 07-16-2007, 03:59 PM

Well, after all that, the Shell and Fuchs 3353 apparently are not readily available online. Why does that not surprise me? It would appear that we have no choice but to use the MB labeled product.

SLickmann · #10 07-17-2007, 09:37 PM

My mechanic is going to replace the incorrect fluid with the proper Mercedes fluid on Friday. In the future, I will be asking more questions when I have him do services which go beyond the regularly scheduled items. Thanks to all for your responses and comments.

Will_w202 · #11 07-18-2007, 09:36 AM

You can eliminate all doubt and in fact UPGRADE your fluid with the new "3353" stuff for the 722.9 - like I just did - for $9/liter from Phil and Roy on the Fastlane.

SLickmann · #12 07-18-2007, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will_w202

You can eliminate all doubt and in fact UPGRADE your fluid with the new "3353" stuff for the 722.9 - like I just did - for $9/liter from Phil and Roy on the Fastlane.

Yes you can. That was determined from looking at the Fuchs and Shell technical data which I found on their websites. I also called the Mercedes dealership to verify this and they agreed that the 5535 could be used on the 226.6 transmission. Here's what doesn't add up: The Mercedes dealer (Parts Dept.) stated that their labeled 5535 was more costly ($25/liter) than their 5-speed transmission fluid which was originally made for the models requiring synthetic fluid, including the 226.6. I'm not sure about you're transmission, but I would assume so since you are moving up in quality. You may want to check with your Mercedes dealership if you haven't done that already. There's no logic to the dealership's prices -- They probably consider the average new Mercedes buyer won't shop around because they'll be bringing the car back to the dealer for servicing throughout the warranty period. Sky is the limit on pricing under those circumstances. That's a big negative for the public image of Mercedes dealerships IMO. At least for those customers who look into this and determine the pricing to be way out of line. If the factory was still providing maintenance for the first four years, you can bet those prices for 3353 would be much closer to the the internet price. Thanks for the tip on Fastlane.

Will_w202 · #13 07-18-2007, 10:38 PM

Phil mentioned the price on fluid had come down, and in fact I think the 722.9/3353 fluid is CHEAPER even than the 722.6 fluid.

FWIW, rumor seems to be true - I noticed softer, more "padded" shifts with the new fluid. I had them drain the TC as well, so I got 8 fresh liters of it. Awesome!

SLickmann · #14 07-19-2007, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will_w202

Phil mentioned the price on fluid had come down, and in fact I think the 722.9/3353 fluid is CHEAPER even than the 722.6 fluid.

FWIW, rumor seems to be true - I noticed softer, more "padded" shifts with the new fluid. I had them drain the TC as well, so I got 8 fresh liters of it. Awesome!

Glad it worked out for you. We'll see how mine turns out.