I also love the W140, but the Maybach does not play in the same division of the W140 W220, does not even play in the same sport!!!
I truly think that the W140 was a much better car than the W220, but everybody knows that! but for the value/money the w220 is simply a better choice. I have a 93 S500 and today with almost 150 kmiles it drives like new and more quietly that most cars available now, just don't ask me how much did I pay for this!!! See what I mean...

Folgado
93 S500

Gilly you are scaring the hell out of me i`m about to purchase a W140 S420 in a couple of days and somehow you got me wondering. This car has an original 60,000 miles on it what am i in for ?

Well,

It's been said before, but I'll say it again anyway,

The W140 cars are expensive to maintain, both in maintenance and repairs. Especially when repairs are required.

The AC evaporators fail, and it REALLY expensive. When you see what's involved in changing one, you'll see why the bill is so high.

Things like door-closers, PBU's, intrument panels, and so on, can add up over time.

Don't think that because you can buy a used W140 S-Class for $20,000, that it costs the same to maintain as a $20,000 Corolla. These cars were never meant to be sold into a demographic that cared about running costs. They were "damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead" kinda cars.

Not to say that running an S-Class can't be a great experience. They can be very relaible cars, giving year after year of top service to the owner. But, when something does go wrong, or age creeps in, you're not getting a bargain on the repair. V-8 engines are not inexpensive for things like head gaskets or timing chains. The electronics on these cars are numerous and complex. Diagnosis can be expensive, and repair costly too. Even things like cabin air filtration systems are much more complex and costly to maintain than on the C or E Class brethern.

I've seen few indie shops with the experience or tools to effectively look after an S-Class W140. Only dealerships or major MB repair centres have the facilities to do it, and that means you've got to pay top labour rates to make sure they have the right gear.

Things like Self-Levelling rear suspension can give years of trouble free service, but when repairs are required, it ain't cheap. It's just that the S-Class cars have ALL the gizmos, and then some.

And the 60,000 miles is just a number. I've seen cars with half that mileage that are not worth buying. Mileage is a poor indicator of care. Look for a car with meticulous service records, including oil and filter changes. Has the car sat for an extended time period? If so, I'd be careful. Non-driving-time is VERY hard on MB's, and can cause all kinds of problems. These cars need exercise.

Has the car changed hands lots? It could be a big headache if so.

Who is the original owner, and the current owner? I like to find cars where the owner has the resources to truly care for the car. Do they let their teenager drive the car?

Don't be in a rush to own an S-Class. Take your time and buy the right car. Set aside a reasonable budget to care for it, or be prepared to be unhappy.

BTW, this is not just true of the MB products. A 7-series BMW, LExus LS, Inifiniti Q45 or Audi A8 are the same. Expensive to buy, depreciate enormously after five years, and are costly to operate when compared to their smaller siblings.

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John Shellenberg
1998 C230 "Black Betty" 240K

http://img31.exs.cx/img31/4050/tophat6.gif

To all the W140 owners bemoaning how your overblown luxo-tank wasn't recreated in a new incarnation for the W220 series:

Drive a 1990 or 1991 560SEL in exemplary condition. Note connection with road and lightness on its feet, not to mention totally decent power from the 240 hp SOHC 5.6 liter V-8. Also note reasonable repair costs (AC repairs definately not as expensive) and how tossable the car feels compared to the "barges".

Then repeat three times: "Why the hell am I bemoaning the W140's demise?"

If only the W140 had been an evolution of the W126 design. I feel like the W220 car brings back the spirit of the original W126 car (Think of how technologically advanced the W126 was in 1979, with ABS, aluminum OHC V-8 engines with high redlines, 4-speed automatic transmissions, and double-wishbone suspensions).

-Sam

MBZ380SE, I can NOT agree with you........more! You hit it right on the head. The 140 is an anomoly at best. Everybody hated it when it came out, now everybody loves it and think the 220 is some freak 'o nature. Compared to the 140 when it came out, the 220 is solid GOLD.
Ronald, I also agree with blackmercedes comments wholeheartedly, so read them carefully. You didn't state the year, I assume a 420 isn't too old. No matter the year, one thing blackmercedes didn't comment on was leaking steering gear boxes, so watch for that. I'd like to double up on the warning about leaking A/C evaporators, this is a big big job if it needs to be done. Is the car new enough to get a Starmark warranty? I think about the only way i'd buy is from a dealer under the Starmark plan. I do love the 140, don't get me wrong on this, just be careful.
Gilly

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I agree with you Gilly and disagree with mbz380....I have owned a 126 in the past and now own a 140....I don't even think the cars are comparable....the 140...although much heavier feels more nimble than the 126 by a long shot...and I actually think the 220 evens feels more nible than the 140...in regard to repairs...yes the 140 is very expensive and I would even consider one that had sketchy records
It has many creature comforts INCLUDING a great stereo..one of the things that has NEVER been a MB strongpoint
The 140 is quieter,faster,rides better and is more nible than the 126...and they way I figure it driving everyday with all the extra creature comforts is worth something especially since the original owner took the lionshare of the depreciation so the purchase price for me was FAR lower that what the orginal owner paid

Warren
1992 300SD
Columbus Ohio

I see a lot of debate between owners of the 140 and 220 S cars, but it seems that no one ever has bad things to say about the 126. The problem is: the newest 126's are almost 12 years old they are starting to get a little dated looking, and most of the ones I see for sale (and on the road) are "finished." I define finished as in a state of neglect and disrepair to a point whereas repair costs exceed the value of the car if it were in a respectable condition.

To the 140 owners: For someone potentially looking to upgrade sequentially to the next s-class body style (ie: me, upgrading to a 140, someday) are the later years of the cars (1997-1999) significantly improved on a reliability basis? For me to buy a 140, I would probably budget at least $30,000 and try and find something with less than 40k miles. How reasonable would it be for me to assume that a 1997 S420/500 would make it to 100k over the course of approximately five years without thousands spent in repair costs?

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2003 S500 Black/Charcoal
1990 560SEL 61k Arctic White/Grey

SOLD:
1988 420SEL Black/Palomino Sold @ 85k
1987 420SEL Midnight Blue/Grey
1986 420SEL Diamond Blue/Grey
1983 380SEL Champagne/Palomino

Gilly & blackmercedes for what its worth its a 93 S420. I do know a little of the background. It was a crash that was fully repaired and aproved by a Mercedes Benz Dealer here in N.Y.(I saw the car being rebuilt with my own eyes) The previous owner bought it crashed with 25000 on the meter. It looks physically intact a real cream puff, But gosh i don`t know I had a 87 300E that was so problem free i figure i can`t go wrong with another Benz. I would have bought another E class but i grew out of it they are a little small compared to the S. I can`t go back to a small car. As for a warranty i don`t know if i can get one, How old does the car have to be for Mercedes to warranty it ?

Ron and Rich: I would buy the newest example of a 140 that I could find. Ron, I have to review how old the car can be and still have Starmark warranty, I think a 93 is too old, I wanna say 7 years, but let me check, unless someone else knows for sure. There is more than likely info at the MB website, I'm not fond of jumping around on the net looking for answers you can find yourself with a little button-pushing.
This is plain and simple: A smart person would wait until a product has matured before buying it. That's my philosophy, always will be. How many examples do you want? About the only real exception that comes to mind is the 202 chassis, although even with that there were definite benefits to buying say a 2000 over a 1994, the engine, etc, were upgraded. The 140 is the "grand" example of this. I know I mentioned this earlier, I think in this thread, about the "value commitment program" for the 140. In otherwords, they were such a problem that they instituted this program to fix the cars, they were THAT bad. You're ALWAYS better off buying the last year of a MB model rather than the first, IMO.
Now dammit, everyone go out and buy a 2002 210 chassis before it's too late!
Gilly

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The oldest Starmarked car you can buy now would be a 1995(7 model years old)

Rich.....I have heard that the 1997+ cars are actually pretty reliable...but TRUST me.....the repair costs in comparison to the 126 are VERY much different as the car is a lot more complicated and has a lot more systems involved in it....really watch out for AC work..it can be very expensive...although some people have never had problems...my tech me that the most problems came from cars that were in warm humid climates
You also might want to budget more than $30,000 if you want a starmarked car with mileage that low

good luck

Warren
1992 300SD
Columbus Ohio

Really? I didn't know that about the W140 cars. Ya learn something new everyday...

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John Shellenberg
1998 C230 "Black Betty" 240K

http://img31.exs.cx/img31/4050/tophat6.gif

Yeah John, we average I would say 2 a year, and we're only a little 4 stall dealer. New trend this year though, as we've already done 2. Well, one was repaired at another dealer and for some reason (?) was brought to us to do the proper repair, which is replacement. Not an real good thing to repair in the field, IMHO, there are quite a few special tools required to properly repair it. Some guys just try winging it without the proper special tools, with the expected results. Plus you have a warranty on the new or reman box. We also have diagnosed another leaker, owner is balking on the price, can't blame them.
Gilly

__________________
Click here to see the items I have up for auction at EBay

Click here to see a photo album of my '62 Sprite Project Moneypit (Now Sold)

No doubt about it: if you want a relative realiable W140 you must go for the 1997-1998-1999 model years and preferable an S320 (the V8's are O.K. until they start giving problems, then hang on to your wallet...)

Avoid at all costs 1992-1993 model years, any model. Those are the real lemons!!!!

Although, as commented before, I have yet to see a W140 that hasn't require some type of A/C work, from an easy-fixed filter clogging to the infamous evaporator change ($$$$).

As for the W126 issue: the W126 and W116, design wise, are the nicest designs M.B. have yet perfomed on the S-class theme. The W140 is nice but not to die for, although, in terms of size and comfort features, it wins hands down (even over the W220). In terms of driving experience, the W140, the more your drive it the more it "shrinks" (it feels much smaller and agile than its size would let you beleive).

In terms of buying used: get a rencet '97-'99 model, with a FULL history, NO accident damage (even if it was repaired by an authorized dealer) and definitely low mileage -certified- (less than 40k).

A. Rosich
S320, 1998
E320T, 1995

Well, not to start fanning the flames again, but after paying too much for repairs on my 140, I'm getting a W220! I'm sick and tired of paying too much on repairs for it. The comfort-fit feature on the seatbelts keep going out, I'm on my 4th pump for the door closers and have already had to change the evaporator on the car. Enough is enough for me. After 125K miles and 9 glorious years of ownership, it's time to move on!!

I just test drove the '03 S500 and must say that it is indeed quieter than the 140 and they've finally upgraded the interior trim quality to match the previous 140 chassis. I definitely fell in love with the car!

My only debate now is whether to go for another S500 or get the S600! With the turbocharged V-12, I'm quite tempted to take the plunge!

If i had the money, my W140 would be in a used-car parking lot, and a new 496HP S600 would be in my garage. LOL Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

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"If I teach you half of what I forgot, you'll still have enough to compete with most people"