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#1
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420SEL Stalling. Help with the diagnosis!
So, my 1991 420SEL with 202,000 on it. Problem is that occasionally, seemingly at low speed, the engine will shuts off. It happened this AM. Just stops.
Recent stuff that's been done 1) EZL Ignition control module failed about 3,000 mi ago (the engine just stopped while car being driven), replaced with used one. 2) New rotor, distributor cap, spark plug wires 10K ago. 3) New spark plugs, 1,000 mi ago 4) New Fuel distributor 500 mi ago. Engine was running rough at idle. Number 1 and 3 cylinders were not firing. Back to baseline after replacement. 5) Fuel injector seals and air feed tubes replaced. 6) Fuel injectors tested and good (after 200K!) 7) Fuel filter replaced Machanic told me that idle speed not being as well regulated as it should be, and I sometimes observe it running a little high (900-1100 on the dash tach). suggested this could be a problem with the idel control module or idel control valve (which has a little electric motor in it and would surprise me to still be running normally). Thoughts????
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Der Panzermann und Fraulein Fahrvergnuegen 1991 420SEL 201K "The Big Blue One" 1985 300DT 205K chassis/285K engine nee California emissions "Goldbug" 1983 300TDT 255K "The Womble" 1983 300 DT 214K "Sea Sprite"-Rear-ended a truck 1983 300SD 285K "The Donor" Gave his life so that others can live 1980 500SL Euro 105K "Der Panzer" |
#2
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Check your ovp relay, Steve Brotherton has written an article about this. I can't find it right now, but it's around here somewhere.
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#3
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Yeah I can help send me your vin and email addy so I can send you some documents.
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1986 300SDL, 211K,Dealership serviced its whole life 1991 190E 2.6(120k) 1983 300D(300k) 1977 300D(211k) |
#4
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Check that the idle control module is plugged in tight. A loose connector will cause fluctuations.
Clean the idle control valve by removing it and spraying the inside thoroughly with carb cleaner.
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1985 380SE Blue/Blue - 230,000 miles 2012 Subaru Forester 5-speed 2005 Toyota Sienna 2004 Chrysler Sebring convertible 1999 Toyota Tacoma |
#5
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well, I changed the idle control valve for a nice fresh juicy one and made sure the idle control relay was in place. Seems to be idling at the correct speed, based onthe dash tach. Will need to drive it around a bit to see if it stalls at low speed. I still don't understand how the OVP relay would lead to a stall at low speed.
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Der Panzermann und Fraulein Fahrvergnuegen 1991 420SEL 201K "The Big Blue One" 1985 300DT 205K chassis/285K engine nee California emissions "Goldbug" 1983 300TDT 255K "The Womble" 1983 300 DT 214K "Sea Sprite"-Rear-ended a truck 1983 300SD 285K "The Donor" Gave his life so that others can live 1980 500SL Euro 105K "Der Panzer" |
#6
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Check the following:
OVP Fuel relay (most likely) Ignition coil
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Master Computer Engineer, A+, Network+, MCP/MCSA/MCSE 4/2k/2k3 - Messaging, MCTS, MCITP, MCT, Brainbench, ICDL and starting Ph.D 380SE 1984 <------- Totaled by flipping accident 300SE 1988 <------- Sold Volvo S70 2000 <---- 4 family Opel Omega 2002 <-- 4 family 560SEC 1989 <------ Sold 560SEL 1990 <------ Sold 560SEL 1991 <------ 4 my mother 560SEL 1989 <------ Sold 600SEL 1992 <------ Current http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZkhazenzcc |
#7
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The fuel relay can also cause some hard starting, ie repeated twists of the key before the engine fires. I also had the stalling problem but it seems to have gone away since I replaced the fuel relay.
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1985 380SE Blue/Blue - 230,000 miles 2012 Subaru Forester 5-speed 2005 Toyota Sienna 2004 Chrysler Sebring convertible 1999 Toyota Tacoma |
#8
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The power for the idle control valve comes via the OVP relay. A bad contact of the OVP relay in its socket can cause intermittent idle failure. Remove OVP relay, clean it properly, check that the female contacts in the socket have not widened excessively, push the OVP relay back in properly.
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Saumil S. Patel |
#9
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The ICV thing has me a little confused. When you remove power from the ICV, the idle speed goes up to around 1500. So losing power to the ICV should never cause a stall, right? You would just have an abnormally high idle speed.
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1985 380SE Blue/Blue - 230,000 miles 2012 Subaru Forester 5-speed 2005 Toyota Sienna 2004 Chrysler Sebring convertible 1999 Toyota Tacoma |
#10
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crankshaft position sensor,at the bell housing,single shielded wire running to the ignition module as a single pin plug in.classic symptoms,seen it 10 times this year already.
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David S Poole European Performance Dallas, TX 4696880422 "Fortune favors the prepared mind" 1987 Mercedes Benz 420SEL 1988 Mercedes Benz 300TE (With new evaporator) 2000 Mercedes Benz C280 http://www.w108.org/gallery/albums/A...1159.thumb.jpg |
#11
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Panzermann! Did you get your problem fixed?
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Master Computer Engineer, A+, Network+, MCP/MCSA/MCSE 4/2k/2k3 - Messaging, MCTS, MCITP, MCT, Brainbench, ICDL and starting Ph.D 380SE 1984 <------- Totaled by flipping accident 300SE 1988 <------- Sold Volvo S70 2000 <---- 4 family Opel Omega 2002 <-- 4 family 560SEC 1989 <------ Sold 560SEL 1990 <------ Sold 560SEL 1991 <------ 4 my mother 560SEL 1989 <------ Sold 600SEL 1992 <------ Current http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZkhazenzcc |
#12
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It's baaaaack.....
Quote:
So, I thought everything was wonderful, my payback for a life well led. Having changed my idle control valve, it had not happened in about a weeks. But this PM, it's back, while waiting at a stoplight, having just started the car after leaving it for 45 minutes in a parking lot. Car stalled in gear 3 times in a row at the same light. The rest of the drive was uneventful, although the idle speed was about 500. It is interesting that the crankshaft position sensor is mentioned, as I recently had to change a failed ignition control module for a new (used) one. I will check the plug on the ICM to make sure the sensor is plugged in well. I will look now at the OVP as the next culprit. Will keep y'all posted as to outcome.
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Der Panzermann und Fraulein Fahrvergnuegen 1991 420SEL 201K "The Big Blue One" 1985 300DT 205K chassis/285K engine nee California emissions "Goldbug" 1983 300TDT 255K "The Womble" 1983 300 DT 214K "Sea Sprite"-Rear-ended a truck 1983 300SD 285K "The Donor" Gave his life so that others can live 1980 500SL Euro 105K "Der Panzer" |
#13
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Quote:
didn't read this first The contacts to accept the ovr are recessed How would one know if they were too wide? I did notice a few relays rock in there sockets The old ovr had stable prongs so it must be the base that rocked. If the relay rocks when you wiggle it from above should I remove it and try to crimp the connection socket tighter that is if I could get to it? Did see one prong on old OVR was darker could that have been a sign of a problem? I didn't check the 10A blade fuse yet in the old one... but I just shook the ovr & sometimes something inside it rattles & is loose????? Maybe it was broken? Should anything mmove inside of it???? Thanks
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~Shadow~ 83 500 SEC Euro 198K Last edited by CamelotShadow; 10-01-2007 at 10:33 PM. |
#14
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Quote:
Anyway did you check the FUEL PUMP RELAY??? It's a common failure for your car's symptom. BTW, After searching and experience, a malfunction coil would damage the ignition control module.
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Master Computer Engineer, A+, Network+, MCP/MCSA/MCSE 4/2k/2k3 - Messaging, MCTS, MCITP, MCT, Brainbench, ICDL and starting Ph.D 380SE 1984 <------- Totaled by flipping accident 300SE 1988 <------- Sold Volvo S70 2000 <---- 4 family Opel Omega 2002 <-- 4 family 560SEC 1989 <------ Sold 560SEL 1990 <------ Sold 560SEL 1991 <------ 4 my mother 560SEL 1989 <------ Sold 600SEL 1992 <------ Current http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZkhazenzcc |
#15
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Latest update
So, here is how I proceeded:
1) Changed Idle control relay (having already changed the valve). Went OK for a while, then...stall 2) Had an extra used EZL ignition control module laying around. Had changed to a new used one. Hypothesized that it could be the used EZL that was put in to replace the one that burned out. Placed the spare used EZL in. Drove around. Seemed to be doing well over about 250 miles...stall (in a bad place too, as I was making a left turn in a busy intersection) 3) Replaced...yes, I know, you told me so...the fuel pump relay. Drove so far about 150 miles so far. No stall yet. 4) Had ordered a new OVP relay. figured what the hell, put that one in too. So, if I stall again, then I guess I look at my ignition coil. Put a new one in about 7K ago. Old one had not failed, but figured it was getting up there at 200K. Will keep posted.
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Der Panzermann und Fraulein Fahrvergnuegen 1991 420SEL 201K "The Big Blue One" 1985 300DT 205K chassis/285K engine nee California emissions "Goldbug" 1983 300TDT 255K "The Womble" 1983 300 DT 214K "Sea Sprite"-Rear-ended a truck 1983 300SD 285K "The Donor" Gave his life so that others can live 1980 500SL Euro 105K "Der Panzer" |
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