It's all relative. I think that not too long ago, Mercedes products were world class and MB reliability and durability was the envy of most makers. When cars were first ranked on such things beginning in the late 80's, MB stood on top. Today, they have been caught and surpassed by most makes and now sit in the basement of rankings with respect to quality.

In many ways, the newer MB's are better, but better is not enough when it's possible to buy much better from other makes.

I prefer driving our C230 compared to our Subaru, but the Subaru is much better made. I am not even remotely considering replacing the C230 (which is a very reliable and well made car, the best MB we've owned) with another MB product. The newer Japanese products we've had are just too good. Check engine lights? Never. Electronic failures? Never. Emissions controls failures? Nope. In six years and 180K our Scoob has required almost no non-service repairs. The HVAC blower motor failed a coupe years back. That's it. The stereo works like new, the power accessories all work perfectly, the SRS system has never given a fit, the air-mass-meter (or whatever it has) has never failed, the fuel level sensors have never broken, the vacuum system for the fuel system (emissions) has never had a part fail. Spring perches are not rusting, control arms are not in need of replacing and the paint work looks great. The HVAC control system works and seems like it always will.

If you compare the ownership of our Subarus (this is our third) to our MBs (a series of them too) the Subarus are vastly superior in terms of build quality and reliability. They're a different driving experience, but after years of nursing MB products through odd fits of diagnosing expensive problems, I've had it. As long as the C230 stays strong, I'll keep it (the driveline is like new at 240K) but it won't be replaced with another Flying Star. I just don't have the patience for it...

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John Shellenberg
1998 C230 "Black Betty" 240K

http://img31.exs.cx/img31/4050/tophat6.gif

Well I'm betting in 10 years my W126 will be worth more than any W140.

W140's are dropping in value like rocks, W126's seem to be holding steady. Good diesels have been commanding premiums for years.

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2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

I wonder what the cost of repairing a 220 will be when it's 15-18 years old. One look at all the wiring and electronics in those freaked me out!

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" We have nothing to fear but the main stream media itself . . . ."- Adapted from Franklin D Roosevelt for the 21st century

OBK #55

1998 Lincoln Continental - Sold
Max 1984 300TD 285,000 miles - Sold
The Dee8gonator 1987 560SEC 196,000 miles - Sold
Orgasmatron - 2006 CLS500 90,000 miles
2002 C320 Wagon 122,000 miles
2016 AMG GTS 12,000 miles

I have only owned three 124 AMG:s and two G-wagens, but I find my E36 AMG Coupé and the G500 good enough to keep when I compare to newer models. They are almost bullet proof and there is nothing on the more recent models that I find "better", not even the looks.

Perhaps a future "Gullwing" I have seen on renderings would do...

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-94 E 36 AMG Coupé, Brilliant Silver
-98 G 500, Obsidian Black
-05 Mini Cooper, Solid Black
-97 993 Carrera S, Ocean Blue

I dunno about that. Depends on the 140. Most of the 140's that I have seen are dogs with cracked leather interiors and malfunctioning systems. I think the well maintained 140's will still be worth more than a 126. Look at the 6.3's and 6.9's for an example. There are dirt cheap 6.3's and 6.9's because they are rough. The ones in really good shape sell quickly for a LOT of money.

The 140 is not yet old enough to be a "classic" car since production ended in 1999. When the flock starts to thin with some of the bad cars being junked there will be less of them around. They also are rather etched in the history books because of the Princess Di accident. I have seen 140's range in price from $7000 for an older crappy one to in the low 30's for low production S600's. Keep in mind there is a cult following for the 140 because of the build quality in comparison to the other cars.

The 126's have the same resale issues as well. Many of the early 380SEL's from the early production are already beginning to die off. Not to mention the $1000 something pricetag the early 380SEL's are selling for. Those 1992 $7000 300SE's are just like the 80's 380SEL's.

Depends on what your looking at in "better made". If you consider cheap hard interior plastics and cloth seats to be "better made" more power too you. It really depends on the mission of the car. The Mercedes is a luxury car while he Subaru is a mass market car sold mostly to middle class consumers.

An example. A friend of mine has had several service visits for his $10k Sub Zero fridge. Does that make my $1000 Frigidare better made? His fridge has a lot more features and systems and will easily last for 30 years. When my fridge goes out it goes into a landfill.

I have not been so fortunate. I cannot get the plastic under the pading for the convertable top cover for an 88 560SL. I cannot get the three chrome pieces just above the tail lights and licence plate. And a sun visor cost $500.00.

John Roncallo

The 123 and 126 cars were built by engineers who designed a fine motorcar, then let the sylists wrap a body around their creations - then they figured out what they had to sell it for - these cars are the last of the chrome and steel tanks. After that the marketing people apparently got control of MB and said: What can you build that I can sell for $38,500? From a block away you can recognize a 123 or 126 as a Mercedes. From a block away from a new MB, you can't tell whether it's an MB or a ricer. If you could fast-forward one of these late model "marketing marvels" to 25 years old with 250K or 350K miles I think you'd be disappointed.

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Houston, Texas
1984 300CD 235K miles, Elvira, one owner
1987 300TD 180K miles
1974 TR6 78K miles Sarah Jane, one owner
OBK #27

How many dealerships have you been to? Its just a matter of knowing the "right" part number. Additionally the "classic center's" at many dealerships can track down hard to find parts that the service counter guy's can't. Many times a parts person just cant be bothered to spend hours tracking down trim pieces that don't have a high pricetag.

Uh, yes actually it does.

I guess I'm just a bit strange but I'd rather have a fridge that doesn't require a tech visit every couple of months than one with a lot of "features and systems" that does. If your on the other side of this one Mercedes is definitely the car for you. As for me I'm with John (blackmercedes) - when the new CDI Accord arrives in 2009 I'm done with MB.

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98 Dodge-Cummins pickup (137K)
13 GLK250 (157k)
06 E320CDI (341K)
16 C300 (89K)
82 300GD Gelaendewagen (54K)

Off topic, but Sub Zero's are junk. If you want to get a high end fridge don't get a Sub Zero.

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2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

I have a Frigidare as I never really eat in and cook that much and I don't live in a mini mansion where it would look appropriate anyway.

Honda and Mercedes have different groups they are marketing to. I had a 2002 Accord I bought new that was a complete piece of crap. The doors closed like they were made from recycled soda cans and the whole car felt cheap. Oil changes were at every 3750 miles and it was in the shop more than any of my MB's for just oil services. Sitting around in a waiting room with no loaner car available every 3750 miles is not my idea of fun. I don't mind spending the extra money for a car thats much better construction quality and does not have to be in the shop constantly for just oil changes. Additionally I would rather be in any MB than a Honda in the event of an accident. The Japanese only engineer their cars to do well on the test not for the real world.

Go test drive one of those Honda's and I'm sure you will buy one. Just wait a few months and wonder why it is you miss your Mercedes again. I had a troublesome 1998 Volvo S70 and after a month with my top of the line 2002 Accord I wanted the troublesome Volvo back. Japanese cars just lack soul and passion. Its like driving a washing machine.

That is VERY well said and I agree with every word of it. The W123, W124 and W126 are the last of the unarguably pure Mercedes.

There is a lot of good left to be found in the W201, W202, W210 and W140 but those cars do show the shift from engineering to other priorities.

Beyond that, except for the safety commitment, each car offered squanders the Mercedes Benz legacy of Gottlieb Daimler and Karl Benz.

They dare not use the company's old motto, "The Best...or Nothing" any more because it would be an utter lie, all the Mercedes Benz cars are being sold on the basis of their PRICE.

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1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ...

1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold)

2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp

1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k

2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold)

The sad thing is that the current buyers are too stupid to know the difference. Most of the newer Mercedes cars are being sold for name recognition only as icons of wealth rather than the superior engineering that they stood for before.

But then again we only have ourselves to thank for the changes Mercedes has gone through. Companies evolve to conform to market conditions. Mercedes designs and builds what will sell. Because the majority of buyers of these cars only keep them for a few years so they can show everyone how wealthy they are Mercedes does not put a lot of effort anymore into making these cars last anymore.

Many other technologies have gone this way. We don't repair VCR's anymore for example. Recent developments in computer technology have developed the concept of "e-waste". The car is the next frontier of disposable technology for consumers that want the latest and greatest and are willing to throw away and spend to get it.