thanks Larry

I never figured it would be as easy as calling Phil. The dealer parts guys Ive talked to don't want to hear the word "Euro".

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1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"

I have a 1989 190e2.6 with a 5-speed manual, and when I bought it used, its differential was shot, with excessive backlash. I had it rebuilt 5 years ago ($$$), and now it has some discernable backlash, and some gear whine at highway speeds.

A benz service adviser once told me that a manual transmission imparts more wear on the differential, for two reasons:
* because of the positive gearing of a manual transmission, one is able to engine-brake, and this loads up the opposite gearfaces on the differential gears
* with an automatic transmission, the driveline is almost always loaded, since the transmission is almost always left in Drive and braked at a stop (a driveline under load has no more free play in the direction of load). Driving off from a stop therefore imparts less impact loading on the driveline, than in a manual transmission.

Do you guys with manual transmissions have differentials that are noisy or that have more backlash than usual? Or do all benz differentials have this problem? Or is it that the drivers of automatic cars just don't notice the backlash? (this is my only Benz, so I don't have anything for comparison)

I consider myself a smooth driver, careful to impart as little impact loading on the driveline as possible.

And like most of you, I do love my car.

Pure drivel!

My axle was replaced twice under warranty due to noise in float, but never developed excess lash, and the noise was not a reliability issue, but it was very annoying and was quite noticeable because the car is otherwise so quiet.

Clutch type LSDs can develop excess differential gear backlash due to clutch wear, but this isn't an issue with open differentials.

I inquired about the dealer checking and tightening the hypoid backlash to cure the noise problem, but they said they did not have the tools to service the axle, so replacement was the only option. Since it was free I didn't argue, but the first replacement still made noise. Finally the second replacement was quiet, and it's still in the car.

Axle overhaul is a precision process, and I wonder how well most mechanics do the job.

Since axles are normally very long lived components, you may be better off getting one out of a junkyard 190E, 260E or 300E 2.6. All have the same axle. manual or auto with a 3.27:1 gear except early 190Es and 16Vs.

Make sure it has the port for the ABS sensor.

Duke

Here is my 1990 190E 2.6 5-speed. 167K. Sweet car. Love it.

Attached Thumbnails

 

I take it not many 5 speed folks have had a differental problem, I havent with mine but I dont put that many miles on.
I dont think there is any differance in the W123, auto transmission, and 4 speed (or 5) manual cars, in regard to differental problems. I realize we are talking two WAY different cars, plus "gasser & diesel, but I had thought anyone with a 123 5 speed (or 4 spd) woulda chimed in.

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1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"

I've never had any differential problems in 288,000 miles. I believe that it's all in how you drive it. I have hundreds and hundreds of thousands of miles of stick shift driving experience. I have had people make comments like "this car sure does have a smooth manual transmission." My response is that the smoothness in a manual is the driver, not the car.

I agree with Duke in that not a lot of techs do much gear work these days. If they don't know what they are doing and don't get one set up right it is destined to either make noise or not last long or both.

Have a great day,

Not an E or 190 but I have a gray market 5 speed '95 S280. Can't wait to drive it more than up and down the block as soon as I put a good engine in it. I was originally planning on using an engine from a '94-'95 C280 but lately have been thinking of dropping in a '94-'95 E320 engine. The 3.2 would sure be quicker, but I think I may prefer a more authentic but slower feel of a 2.8. What do you think? Do they have the same bell housing shape so it would bolt up to the transmission?

This damn car seems to make me do dumb sh#*. I mean, I'm a really practical guy except for when it comes to this damn car!! I'm talking about my 95 wagon. I love it, except the tranny is going and I like a 5-speed.
So here's where the dumb comes in.....I bought a 86 300E 5-speed junk for practically nothing that didn't run and towed it on a car dolly to my house....now it sits in my driveway, much to the delight of my neighbors, I'm sure. It's smashed on the front right, but as I found out today, it does run and it's driveable. I dismantled the throttle linkage and lubed it (it was stuck in the wide open position....yes, I found out the hard way, me and the rev limiter!!). Runs like crap but it seems to be all ignition system related. Starts right up; no gas pedal required. A few plugs and maybe a coil or 2 and it will run well. 3 bars oil pressure cold, drops to 1.5 warm. Clutch and tranny work, but the shifter feels all warn out and vague. 249K miles. Rear window left open for almost a year! It's wet and it smells.
I'll try (not too hard) to get the engine running moderately well so I can sell it (the engine, that is). Then the trans and related parts come out and I do the conversion on my wagon.
It's nice to know that there is a small group of individuals whom I can tell this story to, who don't think I'm completely insane. Or they're just as insane as me so their perspective is similar. Either way.
Brian

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Brian
1995 E320 wagon

Kid,

That's a totally doable swap, but make SURE that you complete the transmission swap BEFORE you haul off the car. There are always a few small pieces that you will need from the donor car that you wouldn't think of.

For instance the front motor mounts are different on a manual transmission car and it would be good to change them. The driveshaft will be different and many little things that you may need that you have not thought of.

The shifter problem is most likely just worn out bushings. Make sure the transmission works well before you go to the trouble.

Good luck,

Larry:
Thanks for the advice.
I had no idea that the mounts were different. Any idea why this is? Also, I wonder if the M103 5-speed mounts will be correct for my M104. Anyone have access to euro part numbers (95 W124 M104 with 5 speed) to see if I need mounts sent over from Germany?
The car runs on 5 cylinders at the moment. I didn't get a chance to pull the plugs. I drove it up the street on 5 cylinders just to get through the gears. Got into 4th. Reverse engaged as well. I only drove it about 1/4 mile.
I guess I'm not entirely sure how to tell if this transmission is functioning well or not, cuz the motor and the shifter are currently messed up. Everything feels very vague. Ironically, I think I'll have to get the junk running and functioning well enough to make the determination. It may be in my best interest as well to remove and repair the shifter mechanism, and then reinstall it in the junk just to check the transmission properly.
Any clue how much $$ to rebuild a 5-speed? From what I've read they are virtually indestructable, but I may have to go there, and I will if necessary. I bought the car under the assumption that the trans would need to be rebuilt.
The plan is to put the car in the garage and get it out of site before I get a visit from the local police. Later, I can remove it from the garage after my 5-speed wagon has been on the road for a week or two! I've read many of Larry's posts and completely agree on the necessity of a donor car for this swap, especially given the fact that I don't know what I'm doing.
I know I'll need to modify the flywheel to accomodate the crankshaft position sensor (read it in an old post) or find a dual mass flywheel and use it as-is.
Does anyone know if I can use the 300E driveshaft as-is, or will it require modification?
I'm just going to buy a new clutch.
Does anyone know the differential ratio in the 5-speed?

Thanks. Brian

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Brian
1995 E320 wagon

Yes you will have to modify the flywheel for the sensor, but otherwise it should work.

The driveshaft from the donor car should work.

The way you describe it I would fully expect that the problem with the donor transmission is the shifter, the shifter bushings in general. These are replacable.

The motor mounts are different in their elasticity because of the way that a stick shift transfers torque the mounts when starting from a dead stop. It's not mandatory that you use them but if they are in good shape I would prefer the ones from the donor car. I'm pretty sure that they will fit your 104 engine.

Good luck,

I Got A 190d 2.5 ,i Did Like To Know When My Car Shifta From 3rd To D ,is Their Another Od After The Car Shifts To D

WHEN SHE TOUCHES 3000RPM IT GETS 110 KM/HR SPEED AFTER WHICH SHE DRONES

hi do u have a manul 4 190d auto

i got a auto i dont get back lash as manual gears