This was originally posted to the Hot-Rod list as "300E" roll call. There are so few, that talking to all 5 speed owners shouldn't cause much traffic.

Who has a 300e/190e 5 speed besides me? I have seen a few postings here about them. I bought mine from "Glen" after he got the 500e. I have been completely happy. Mine is likely the bottom of the breed. Need seats, paint, A/C and more. Still, it is lots of fun and reliable, despite the 250,000 odometer, (which is currently not working).

I know that MB only shipped 300e 5 speeds in 1986 and 1988 and that few were so equipped. How many? The history of Mercedes book lists production figures for 300e but not the 5 speed. I have to contact MBCA to see if they know. Anyone else know?

What else can anyone say? Happy like me? I hope so. I'm getting the 250KKM badge soon and looking for the 500KKM badge in the next couple of years. My car has earned them.

Current owner list:

Larry Bible
Dave Quint
Jim Anderson
Krahe
Vaughn Smith

I have two Mercedes 5-speeds; a 1967 230SL (W113) and a 190E 2.3-16 (W201). If they weren't 5-speeds, I wouldn't own them. Both are great cars and the transmissions make them extra special.

1989 190e2.6 5spd - bought 3yrs ago at around 150k km, now about 195k km.
Just like Jim Villers, i wouldn't have bought it if it were not a manual.

Well, my C240 is a 6 speed, but I know that doesn't count!
My BMW 535i is an automatic, but not for long! I am pulling out the automatic and converting it to a 5 speed manual next weekend.
I'd imagine that the operation would be pretty similar for a 300E. Since 300E sticks are so hard to find, one might be able to buy a readily available automatic and convert it!The only question mark would be availability of parts, in the US you might have to have the stuff shipped from Europe.
I had a pretty easy time finding all of the parts for my BMW swap, using a combination of used and new parts, the total parts cost was a little under $1000.

I've got a 1985 190E 2.3 5-speed. I love the feel of the mercedes tranny.

Dan

brian k:
sure your c240 counts. It's from people like you that i will potentially be buying my next car ...

1993 C250D(iesel)...not petrol...388.000km and still running like new (with manual 5-speed).

grettingz,

1986 2.3-16, 5 speed.

1986 300E 5 speed 230,000 miles
Ive put 100,000 of those on and love deveryminute of it. I heard a rumor that there were about 500 sold in the U.S. put dont have anything to back that up.

I would like my 190E 2.6 to be a 5 speed but it's a slushbox and I'm still happy with it. I use my 85 Mustang GT 5.0 5 speed and my Suzuki GS750T 16V DOHC to bang gears when I feel the need for speed. The GT is very nice for 170.000 miles. But will nickel and dime you to death.

'88 190E 5 speed 207K+ miles

Gary

As Jim Villers said, "if it wasn't a five speed, I wouldn't own it".

It took me a LONG TIME to find my 300E five speed. The 124 car is great, and I may have given in and bought one with a slushbox, but it would've been awhile.

I have seen it in print that the five speed was only imported to the US in '86 and '88, but I don't think this is correct. I saw a posting here regarding an '87 US car with a five speed. I expect the numbers in the US to be just a few hundred. There was a post some time back by someone who had researched and found that there was a single digit number, four I think, that were sold in New Jersey. Judging by what I've seen and what I went through to find one, I expect something on the order of 250-300 were imported to the US. What a pity that there were so few.

When I began discussing purchasing an '01 C Class six speed on this forum, I got into a debate about MB manual transmissions. There was someone who kept insisting that the MB manuals are no good. I've driven bunches of different makes of manual transmission cars, and have found the MB manuals to be just fine.

I have turned down much more for my 300E than what even a premium slushbox 124 would bring. I'm still in love with the car.

Have a great day,

While not all these count, I have had a 1972 220D, 4-speed, a 1974 240D, 4-speed, I imported and sold a 1982 Euro 300D, 5-speed, and now own a 1982 240D, 4-speed, and a 1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 with a 5-speed. My wife briefly owned a 1967 250S with a 4-speed. My Mother, and 2 sisters each owned Euro 230E's (1981 and 1984 models) with 5-speeds.

I am not a fan of automatic transmissions and find Mercedes manual boxes much better than most brands when you consider how they match the engine and car, the extraordinary reliable clutches (I have driven Mercedes-Benz autos with manual transmissions over a million miles and replaced one clutch in my '75 because I got Mobil 1 oil leaking past the aft crank seal and onto the clutch, which caused some severe chatter and damage to the little circumferential springs in the clutch which were deformed and, as the clutch wore down, eventually "machined" in half, and that was after 170,000 miles, and on my '82 when I had the ring gear replaced at a similar mileage. Neither had a worn out clutch, per se) and robust gears and synchros. Two of my three kids have learned to drive using the 240D and 16 valve 190E. The third will when the time comes, too.

I am presently looking for a 190E 5-speed to replace my '82 240D which is slowly dying. I am also looking for a 300E for my wife with a 5-speed, each with less than 110,000 miles. The offerings are sparse to say the least. Jim

More to add:
My new mechanic said that he saw one other 300e 5 speed in Canada, tried to buy it, but it was sold already. He said that 5 or so were shipped to Canada. No way to prove that, though. He wondered if mine might have been a conversion. I don't think so, but I don't know.

On the car option tag by the rad, which code signifies a 5 speed?

My odometer and air conditioning work again!
Thanks,

wishful thinking
 

I have a 1986 16V 5-speed which is a great unit, superbly matched to the car's engine. My other car, a 1994 E420+ begs for a BMW 540i six-speed. I am actively thinking of swapping my perfectly good autobox for the BMW (presumably ZF) unit.

1986 300E with 5-speed. 190K, going strong and needs to stay that way for a while - daughter starts at Tulane next month.

I also saw a '90's US model 124 2.8 with a 5 speed.

When we say five speed, we are talking about manual transmissions of the two legged operation variety.

Have a great day,

Hey guys,

Thought I'd chime in with my baby, a 1985 190E 2.3 5 Speed with 275,000 great miles and many more to come.

Attention all biped drivers!
When I had my car at the shop for A/C conversion, the mechanic says "I fixed something else that isn't on the bill. That shifter. I couldn't stand it so I fixed it."

It used to be hard to find gears but I got used to it. The mechanic lubricated all points and now it shifts really well. I said that I didn't know what it was supposed to be like since I had never driven another MB manual. He told me that it wasn't supposed to be like that.

So, get your shifters lubed regularly.

Thought I'd join in, got an '87 2.3-16 w/ 131k. Interesting how many have responded to both this survey and the 500E survey, but so few to my post looking for other 16v'ers out here. Whatever.

Anyway, I too agree the gearing on my car is well matched to both the power curve and the chassis. And it is truly sad that there were not more manuals imported here, life would be so much better if they had! As good as an auto can get these days, you cannot replace the involvment / control / feel of a manual.

HOWEVER (and I know I'm throwing myself to the dogs here), I have driven an infinite number of automobiles with FAR SUPERIOR shifters than the one in mine (as well as the one in the 300E I drove). Granted, the bushings could use some sprucing, but let's be real about this shifter. It (sadly) feels similar to an early Ford Escort's shifter. While the dog legged 1st is cool, it SPRO-INGS out of 1st into 2nd, slides too easily up and down the shaft when shifting (some sort of bastardized VW theory?), and has an awfully long throw for performance use. For a Getrag unit, I am less than impressed. The Getrag in my '88 ///M5 was worlds better in terms of feel (heck, even the non-synchro'ed 1st gear unit in my TR3 feels better!). The new shifters in the new C / SLK are aguably much improved. I'll soon be spending some coin for sure an aftermarket bush kit and weighted short thrower, and then it will be at least marginal.

So, bring on the abuse, I know I've upset more than a few of our faithful here... those seeing through unbiased eyes may agree though... I try not to be partial, rather objective in my views...

Paul,
I think I know what you mean about the feel of the shifter but might I suggest some of the problem is your particular car? The reason I say this is because I recently drove a '85 Euro spec 190E 16V. The shift lever in that car was considerably longer (no idea why) with much longer throws than my car. More than that, the shift action was very sloppy. The owner of that car couldn't believe the difference when he drove my car. While it does "sproing" out of first gear, I don't think the fore/aft movement it too bad. I owned a Porsche with the same shift pattern for many years so maybe I'm more accustomed to it. Having said that, the 16V shift action IS less than ideal. For instance, the shifter in my nephew's Integra GS-R is smoother and quicker.

I've never driven an E28 M5, but my brother has an E28 535i that I'm quite familiar with. Maybe the M5 used a different shift linkage but I'd have to say that my 16V shift action is way better then my bro's 5 series, with shorter throws and being more precise...but slightly more notchy.

Glen-

Na, I'm pretty comfortable in saying it's the unit's design itself, not specific to my car. Same was the case with the 300E's unit. Both more vague, long, and rather slushy than should be expected. Albeit some of the lateral action is obviously bushings, but as you mentioned it still pales in comparison to many, many other cars' shifters. Bushings do not excuse the spring-action 1-2 upshift that I did not experience in a '71 911T or 914-6. Regarding the 535i, that was different altogether as that was not a Getrag box... that thing is like rowing a boat!

While we've all got opinions, mine is just one man's observation in comparison to the multitudes of other makes I've experienced with better shift feel.

Dare I go into clutch take-up feel? This and the shifter are 2 of the FEW complaints I could possibly issue these cars...

Sorry all, I've managed to ramble. Maybe another thread about this issue alone? This thread is to celebrate shiftable MB's, they're too few but certainly appreciated! Drive them like you stole 'em!

vrsmith,

Thanks for coining the term "biped drivers". I love it!

Have a great day,

A 230E '92 W124 with a 5-Speed Manual box.
Benz with manual boxes are pretty common in Jakarta, most people had 300E's with 5-speed manual rather than matic. Same goes for the E320s...

Until the late W210's which came in Matics mostly..
but there were some E230 W210 w/ Manual boxes..
cuz they were the cheapest ..

vrsmith,

I finally remembered to try and find which code indicates the five speed on my 300E. There are a zillion three digit codes on the plate that is riveted to the core support.

I found the transmission (getriebe) code in the back of the maintenance schedule book, it is 717430 00 08642. I believe that 717 indicates transmission and 430 indicates the transmission option code.

I THINK if you find a 430 as one of the codes on the core support plate, this means that it is an original five speed.

Do you have the maintenance schedule booklet or are you completely without any original records.

Let me know what you can find and we will continue our attempt to confirm your original transmission type.

Have a great day,

What I saw once
 

When I was looking for my 5 speed I used the computer and searched for any 5 speed Mercedes. One I found I thought was unusual. I forget exactly what it was but it was big. It was a mid 80's 300SE or 380SE or something like that. I wasn't serious about cause it was too big and thursty for me but I had to check it out. I didn't get a chance to get into it but looking through the window it definitely was a stick. I remember the owner said it was euro version and that it was fast. Never saw anything like it before then or since then.


BTY I build multistage rockets. Would that count as shifting?

Jim,

The multistage rockets only count if they require pressing the clutch pedal to ignite the next stage.:)

In Europe, manual transmission big bodied cars are not uncommon, but much less common than stick shift smaller cars.

Some time ago there was a frequent poster here with a large engine, stick shift, euro, 126 car. I'm sure it is a kick to drive.

Have a great day,

User "Stick6" here offers additional information on the rarity of the 300E 5 speed at the post:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?threadid=14406

The posted unofficial import figures are 781 in 1986 and 311 in 1988.

1987 2.3-16

1989 230te w124 140k!!

Heres a few. I had a 86 190 2.3 5 speed with 105,000miles sold it
with 175,000 not one major repair(blower motor) great car!!
also had a 86 300e 5 spd with 260,000 but this car looked liked
it never left the garage.Sold it with almost 300K and still very peppy.Now I just found a 190e 16v 5spd 156,000. I love this car!!
Its everything you could want in a car.MB recaro interior,AMG body style,cosworth head etc...
I'll tell you this ,the turn down the street from my house with the 300e I could have took it about 40 mph before the car went
into a drift ,the 16v goes through 70 80 mph no problem, u really
need to go fast to make the 16v drift.Both cars had new Vrated tires to. Well im glad to see other Manuel shifting MB drivers out there
Happy Shifting,

2.3 16v
911 5 spd

16V 5 Speed here!
 

I have an 87 16V with the 5-Speed getrag. Stuttgart is completely right about the grip that these cars have. I've owned this car for a year and a half and have yet to squeak the tires on curves. It sure does take a lot to break them loose. I wonder what mine would pull on a skidpad, now that I've lowered it and upgraded the rubber?? Well, there's only one way to find out!! Hehe

Very happy to hear the appreciation for the manual Benz models. Got a 300E-24 Sportline with unique Sportline manual shift, like the one in the 190E 2.3-16 (first gear down). Very fun to drive, makes full use of the engine, and has a nice high-pitched sound to it.

How can I tell if my clutch hydraulics need help? I thought that
the synchromesh might be weak, but the mechanic thinks
maybe the master or slave cylinder. It is hard to get into gear
and will clunk unless it is shifted slowly.

Keep on shifting.

I have a 1988 300E 5 speed...I LOVE that car. And, I will never sell it. It is babied and will continue to be babied. I'm at about 167,000miles and still going strong.

I have a 1980 Euro 280se (W126) with a 4 speed manual Trany. I like it and it also keeps my wife out of the car! My car is not fast but it is nice and much better i imagine than an automatic. I really hated the way it shifted. Just replaced the clutch, the disk was in three pieces. It shifts much better now but still not great. I have a Miata and it shifts much much better. Of course the Miata is known as having one of the best there is. Funny my Miata's clutch has been slipping for the last 2 years (it has over 165,000) and still goes. The Mercedes only had about 16 shifts after it started making noise. My parts guy said this is normal for European clutches they do not give much warning. I do prefer it to an automatic.

Vaughn,

If the problem is consistent throughout all gears, I would suggest that it's probably a good bet that the problem lies with your clutch.

It could still be the synchros, but there will be an underlying problem. All synchros being worn is usually a symptom of another problem since synchros usually wear out on the most commonly used gear. in the case of my 16v, 3rd gear.

I would try bleeding the system first. If that gives you temporary relief then you know it is hydraulics otherwise it could be the clutch itself. Could of course be the transmission but that is not likely. (IMHO) The system is easy to bleed. One method that works well is to get a hose (not sure but an auto counter guy should be able to help you choose one tell him it is for bleeding brakes/clutch) that reaches from the front right caliper to the slave cylinder. You run the line between the 2 valves, open the brake and clutch bleed valve and have some one push down on the brake and then you close the brake valve then have the person release the brake pedal. open the valve and have the assistant push on the pedal then close the valve and they can release. Keep this up for several cycles. close both valves and remove the hose and see if you have improved the clutch action.

Results so far:

This is not an indication of rarity of the models nor is it complete
since I know there other others who frequent this forum.
I did not count references to cars that were sold.

Here's another one... :D a 1992 W124 230E 5-Speed stick. It's more like a 4-speed with an overdrive though. The first gear goes all the way to 40mph and the second gear hits 60.

Might not seem like anything compared to Ferraris.. but before that I was used to driving Toyota manuals and the gears are shorter.

Weird thing is.. in Jakarta, Indonesia... most 300E, CE, sportlines, etc have the 5-speed manual transmission.

When I was there they were still selling W210 E230's with the 5-speed manual box.

1986 Mercedes 190 2.3 with 5 speed manual. I love my car, and like some people on this post, I wouldn't have bought it if it wasn't a manual. 185,000 miles and still going strong. I wish i had a 2.6 or 16v. Oh well, I love my car none-the-less.

Peter V.

One more here...I have a "85' 240D, 5 speed, tobacco brown with 93k on it now. I was lucky to find it and really like it. :D

My wife drives the 86 300e with nearly 200k on the clock. Its a fun car to drive compared to my 420's.

I have a 1986 300E 5-speed, and you'd have to pry the keys out of my hands. Eat you heart out, it ain't for sale. :D

Here is 1 more. 1985 230TE Euro model. 5 speed, 200,000 miles.

Chuck

Sorry to revive an old thread but I thought I'd add mine to the list. :) I have a 1993 190E 2.3 5-speed :D

Regards,

Don

I don't think you have to apologise:D

My Mercedes, that I bought last July in Mississauga, is a white, blue interior, 1982 Euro 300D non-turbo with a Getrag 5 speed transmission. It is very simple, no AC, cloth seats with vinyl edges. The strange thing is that it has a speedometer in miles per hour yet everything else is Euro, bumpers, headlights (including vacuum adjusters), trailer hitch, trailer lighting connector, rear fog light.

The only history that I know is that it was first registered in Ontario in 1992. Does anyone know where this car originated?

5 speed
 

1984 190e with 200k+ 5-speed works great @ 27+ mpg... what gas nileage are you 300e's getting with 5-speeds?

yet another 190
 

gotta love the throw of the 190e 5spd!!!
after removing the factory knob i noticed the shifter is extremely short, i then replaced the knob with a tastful chrome ball. it made the through extremely quicker when pushing my car up to redline. like everyelse on this post "i would not have but it if it wasnt a 5 spd"