There are a number of misconceptions involved in this thread. One is that CAN has something to do with OBDII. As it turns out MB doesn't use CAN for OBDII till the 211 chassis in 2003/4. It nevert was used for 220 or 210 or 203 (unless posibly after the facelift in 2005).

MB has used CAN for module communications since 1992 but that plays absolutely no part of this discussion as none of the tools discussed can talk MB, they onlky talk OBDII. OBDII will never talk to any module on a MB in MB. It only talks to the engine or in early cars the diagnostic module in the generic language that basically is like viewing a painting through wax paper. From the first OBDII cars and even the OBDI ones there have been 15 to 70 modules involved with systems on the cars. What you get with OBDII is little better than flash codes of ONE module (the one containing the OBDII protocols, not even the engine module on HFM cars).

What you get with a OBDII device is like looking at the system through wax paper and only getting ONE system. You are not going to see EA/CC/ISC or ETC, or ESM, or HFM, or, LH, or AB, ABS, ASR, ACC, IC, DCM, EIS, OVM, PSE, SAM, RCL, RST, CL, etc, etc, etc, etc and so on.

Just so no one gets any false ideas.

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Steve Brotherton
Continental Imports
Gainesville FL
Bosch Master, ASE Master, L1
33 years MB technician

So if this is the case, what are you recommending? To not buy anything?

If you have $20K of spare cash laying around I'd recommend the SDS basic system.

I think Steve was just trying to point out the limitations of a generic OBDII scanners, and as a person that has spent some time trying to diagnose modern MB's via OBDII protocols and their views of a single system system through wax paper I'd have to say I agree with him 100%.

OBDII scanners are better than nothing, but not by much.

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98 Dodge-Cummins pickup (137K)
13 GLK250 (157k)
06 E320CDI (341K)
16 C300 (89K)
82 300GD Gelaendewagen (54K)

I am trying to put this into perspective. I realize I am talking to a group that for a large part gives little respect to professional technicians. Part of that lack of respect starts with ignorance. it is hard to understand how complicated these systems are when you have little knowledge and no experience.

This one subject is fairly matter of fact, so it is possible for me to place a perspective on the view each gets when using an OBDII point of view. I can tell you that I almost never talk to a MB in OBDII. I can also tell you that about 98% of what I observe when using a diagnostic communications device (scanner) can not be observed using OBDII. Ninety percent of that 98 comes from the fact that I'm working on things other than engine performance most of the time. The other 8% of the 10% involved with the engine is not available with the generic language of OBDII.

The modern car is a network of systems, having a foggy access to one module is almost dangerous from a diagnostic standpoint. But better than being totally blind I suppose. I would not buy parts based on an OBDII read out, but I might decide if I could go on a trip based on a OBDII evaluation of a check engine light.

I do own one of these: http://www.crecorder.com/website/index.do?method=welcome

It gathers about 20 OBDII data points continuously for a huge amount of time. One can then graph the results using their software. I don't do it often because as I stated only a few items are the same in OBDII as in MB. Watching fuel adaptation in OBDII is frustrating as one or two whole components are not represented.

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Steve Brotherton
Continental Imports
Gainesville FL
Bosch Master, ASE Master, L1
33 years MB technician

In reply to Larry.

It is like viewing stars through the Hubble telescope versus through waxed paper.

The SDS is the tool that was designed with the onboard systems it works on. It does everything that can be done. It does not do things that weren't designed into the systems it converses with.

What is hard for me to express is how much can be done. You will have to decide whether my metaphor is correct.

As to that metaphor, if one is blind (has no knowledge) it really doesn't matter whether one sees through a Hubble or wax paper.

__________________
Steve Brotherton
Continental Imports
Gainesville FL
Bosch Master, ASE Master, L1
33 years MB technician

In reply to Tim,

Actually the SDS Basic2 is less than $10,000. It is the Compact3 that is over $20,000. The difference is mostly that the Compact3 has WIS also installed. THe actual diagnostic software DAS is the same on either. On recent systems the Compact3 has some network diagnostics that the Basic doesn't have sufficient hard drive space to accomplish.

For those not concerned with where things come from, the SDS clones on ebay are now down to about $2000.

__________________
Steve Brotherton
Continental Imports
Gainesville FL
Bosch Master, ASE Master, L1
33 years MB technician

I think most here have great respect for most professional technicians. Cynicism about dealerships is another matter.

I guess I should clarify what I'm looking for. In a nutshell, I want the Mercedes HHT (not the SDS). They are different, correct? The HHT is a standalone, hand-held scanner... and the SDS is a computerized system that works along with WIS and DAS software, right? But AFAIK, I can't easily obtain an HHT (and likely it wouldn't be under $1k anyway). And the SDS is both too much $$$ and way overkill for a DIY guy like myself. Given those assumptions:

What aftermarket scanner solution will provide the same static data as the Mercedes HHT? Specifically, the 3-digit DTC's shown in the screen shot a few posts earlier? This is on a 1994 E500, M119.974, with 38-pin connector. From reading some posts, it sounds like even the MT2500 may not show all the codes a simple LED impulse counter will, if it doesn't have at least the 2003 cartridge (wow - that's crazy)... for example it may not show the codes from the ASR module??

For the record, I'm not at all talking about OBD-II, none of my cars have an OBD-II port. Ditto for the rest of my family, we all have the early cars with 38-pin connectors. And I have the utmost respect for diagnostic technicians! But I'd like to attempt to learn how to diagnose things myself first, and after I have reached an impasse, then turn it over to the experts. Otherwise I'll never learn anything. At the moment, it seems that with the proper tools (i.e., the MB HHT), I would have more information available to work with, since impulse code "2" on the EA/CC/ISC indicates over a dozen different things. The HHT would knock that down to 4 possibilities or less!