Recommendation for Code Reader/Scanner
 

I'm in a dilemna w/ a recently purchased Ford Taurus as I have a CEL that I am trying to diagnose. I thought of purchasing my own scanner/reader so that I won't have to run to AutoZone everytime a CEL comes up. So, I've come up with some criteria for which to purchase one of these nice diagnostic tools.

I would like to be able to use this unit with the following cars:
- '05 Ford Taurus
- '03 Toyota Corolla
- '97 E300
- '99 E300

I would like to be able to:
- read any CEL codes that may come up
- erase any CEL codes if they may come up
- get real-time data from the vehicle while running/driving
- connectivity to a PC to upload data (would be a plus)

I want something decent but not over the top, as I'm a shadetree DIY'er..

Actron http://www.actron.com/product_detail.php?pid=16150
Equus Innova 3110 http://www.iequus.com/product_info.php?product_id=3110&category_id=1_10_7

Both I have found new on eBay between $120-150 approx.

You've found the two most popular models and I'm sure you'd be happy with either one. Here's something else to consider:

http://www.myscantool.com/?doc=details

This is an outstanding unit. Very versatile and detailed.
Cheers,
Jeff

I visited that site and the product looks interesting.... But I've gotten lost with the protocols. MB would use the ISO and my Ford would use the PWM.... Anyone know if the ProScan Universal Scan Tool w/USB Interface includes the ELM device? Or is that still separate?

Nevermind... the "Order Page" answered my question

I would recommend paying a bit extra for one that also speaks CAN.

That's my point... Hence I am looking for something that I can use from one vehicle to another.... Too many choices out there...

This is a good deal for the $$$ http://www.obddiagnostics.com/

Any suggestions for a scan tool for my 92 400e, 94 e320, and a 94 e420? Or does OBDiagnostics.com have OBD-I tools somewhere I'm missing?

Thanks.

All those chassis are Flash Code, so just build a Homebrew $5 Led/Sw ...

No, the old OBD-I models also have codes beyond what just the LED flasher/blinker box will tell you. But you need to have a scanner that will read those codes. I'm having the same problem at the moment, trying to find a scanner which will read the old OBD-I systems with the 38-pin connector (400E / 500E).

:(

The LED tool does read the 38 pin diagnostic socket on OBD1.............

Sorry, I should have clarified. Yes, the LED tool does read the 38-pin diagnostics. But for certain codes, it is not specific... for example, on the E-GAS module (pin 7), there are a half-dozen items that can trigger code #2. The LED just shows "code 2". The scanner will specify which of the half-dozen items actually caused code 2 to display.

:o

That is more like it.......

For those still wondering what I'm talking about, see the attached screen shot... the LED blinker just shows code 2, but with a HHT (hand held tester / scanner), you can pinpoint which of the six sub-codes caused the fault (002, 006, 007, 007, 009, or 025).

I need a scanner / code reader that will read those 3-digit DTC's on an M119 with 38-pin connector.

:scholar:

I went to Harbor Freight last month and bought this for $79.99...

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=94217
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/94200-94299/94217.gif

It has worked well for me--I've already used it on several cars with good results. And, the price is right... And yes, it reads CAN protocol. I wouldn't buy one without that option...

-GH

GH, I need to connect the scanner to a 38-pin round connector used on the early CAN cars (1992-95 W124 with M104 / M119 engines). Do you know if your scanner can pull codes properly from the 38-pin connctor...? I found an adapter cable on eBay (see photo below) but I have no idea if it works or not.

http://www.alpha-bid.com/media/Produ...8PIN/38PIN.JPG

92-95 124's are not Controller Area Network proto.
They are 38 pin OBD1. The old Snap-on MT2500 read them like the old Benz HHT.

Hi Dave GSXR--The scan tool I bought only works on ODB II (model year 1996-now). It will not work on the W124. I was mostly responding to the original poster whom has several cars he keeps that the ODB II scan tool will come in very handy for.

I'm embarrassed to say I've never pulled the codes on my w124's. There is plenty of info on that process on this forum.

-GH

Arthur, do you know if the MT2500 can read 3-digit codes from 38-pin OBD1, same as the Mercedes HHT? I need something that will read the 3-digit codes. See the photo below... the LED impulse counter just shows "2", but the HHT would show 002, 006, 007, 008, 009, or 025... far more precision available there. I wonder who makes the Mercedes HHT...

:confused:

http://www.w124performance.com/servi...-GAS_code2.jpg

There are a number of misconceptions involved in this thread. One is that CAN has something to do with OBDII. As it turns out MB doesn't use CAN for OBDII till the 211 chassis in 2003/4. It nevert was used for 220 or 210 or 203 (unless posibly after the facelift in 2005).

MB has used CAN for module communications since 1992 but that plays absolutely no part of this discussion as none of the tools discussed can talk MB, they onlky talk OBDII. OBDII will never talk to any module on a MB in MB. It only talks to the engine or in early cars the diagnostic module in the generic language that basically is like viewing a painting through wax paper. From the first OBDII cars and even the OBDI ones there have been 15 to 70 modules involved with systems on the cars. What you get with OBDII is little better than flash codes of ONE module (the one containing the OBDII protocols, not even the engine module on HFM cars).

What you get with a OBDII device is like looking at the system through wax paper and only getting ONE system. You are not going to see EA/CC/ISC or ETC, or ESM, or HFM, or, LH, or AB, ABS, ASR, ACC, IC, DCM, EIS, OVM, PSE, SAM, RCL, RST, CL, etc, etc, etc, etc and so on.

Just so no one gets any false ideas.

So if this is the case, what are you recommending? To not buy anything?

If you have $20K of spare cash laying around I'd recommend the SDS basic system.

I think Steve was just trying to point out the limitations of a generic OBDII scanners, and as a person that has spent some time trying to diagnose modern MB's via OBDII protocols and their views of a single system system through wax paper I'd have to say I agree with him 100%.

OBDII scanners are better than nothing, but not by much.

In a nutshell, how good is this SDS system?

I am trying to put this into perspective. I realize I am talking to a group that for a large part gives little respect to professional technicians. Part of that lack of respect starts with ignorance. it is hard to understand how complicated these systems are when you have little knowledge and no experience.

This one subject is fairly matter of fact, so it is possible for me to place a perspective on the view each gets when using an OBDII point of view. I can tell you that I almost never talk to a MB in OBDII. I can also tell you that about 98% of what I observe when using a diagnostic communications device (scanner) can not be observed using OBDII. Ninety percent of that 98 comes from the fact that I'm working on things other than engine performance most of the time. The other 8% of the 10% involved with the engine is not available with the generic language of OBDII.

The modern car is a network of systems, having a foggy access to one module is almost dangerous from a diagnostic standpoint. But better than being totally blind I suppose. I would not buy parts based on an OBDII read out, but I might decide if I could go on a trip based on a OBDII evaluation of a check engine light.

I do own one of these: http://www.crecorder.com/website/index.do?method=welcome

It gathers about 20 OBDII data points continuously for a huge amount of time. One can then graph the results using their software. I don't do it often because as I stated only a few items are the same in OBDII as in MB. Watching fuel adaptation in OBDII is frustrating as one or two whole components are not represented.

In reply to Larry.

It is like viewing stars through the Hubble telescope versus through waxed paper.

The SDS is the tool that was designed with the onboard systems it works on. It does everything that can be done. It does not do things that weren't designed into the systems it converses with.

What is hard for me to express is how much can be done. You will have to decide whether my metaphor is correct.

As to that metaphor, if one is blind (has no knowledge) it really doesn't matter whether one sees through a Hubble or wax paper.

In reply to Tim,

Actually the SDS Basic2 is less than $10,000. It is the Compact3 that is over $20,000. The difference is mostly that the Compact3 has WIS also installed. THe actual diagnostic software DAS is the same on either. On recent systems the Compact3 has some network diagnostics that the Basic doesn't have sufficient hard drive space to accomplish.

For those not concerned with where things come from, the SDS clones on ebay are now down to about $2000.

I think most here have great respect for most professional technicians. Cynicism about dealerships is another matter.

I guess I should clarify what I'm looking for. In a nutshell, I want the Mercedes HHT (not the SDS). They are different, correct? The HHT is a standalone, hand-held scanner... and the SDS is a computerized system that works along with WIS and DAS software, right? But AFAIK, I can't easily obtain an HHT (and likely it wouldn't be under $1k anyway). And the SDS is both too much $$$ and way overkill for a DIY guy like myself. Given those assumptions:

What aftermarket scanner solution will provide the same static data as the Mercedes HHT? Specifically, the 3-digit DTC's shown in the screen shot a few posts earlier? This is on a 1994 E500, M119.974, with 38-pin connector. From reading some posts, it sounds like even the MT2500 may not show all the codes a simple LED impulse counter will, if it doesn't have at least the 2003 cartridge (wow - that's crazy)... for example it may not show the codes from the ASR module??

For the record, I'm not at all talking about OBD-II, none of my cars have an OBD-II port. Ditto for the rest of my family, we all have the early cars with 38-pin connectors. And I have the utmost respect for diagnostic technicians! But I'd like to attempt to learn how to diagnose things myself first, and after I have reached an impasse, then turn it over to the experts. Otherwise I'll never learn anything. At the moment, it seems that with the proper tools (i.e., the MB HHT), I would have more information available to work with, since impulse code "2" on the EA/CC/ISC indicates over a dozen different things. The HHT would knock that down to 4 possibilities or less!

:stuart:

Correct, but the current SDS has all the functionality of the older HHT built in - two different scan tools are not required.

AFAIK none of them will. I do have an MT-2500 with the latest 2003 software but I haven't used it on a LH hot-wire system era car. My cousin has and I just called him to see if he recalls what sort of error codes the Snap-on scanner reported - he wasn't home. I'll email him a link to this thread and see if he remembers how the scanner reported codes.

Tim

The HHT was the predessessor to SDS and SDS runs diagnostics on early systems by running an emulation of HHT on its screen, complete with the crude graphics capable with a hand held.

One could probably buy a clone for what a used HHT would cost, but there were a number of tools that emulated the early HHT. I just sold an old CS2000 last week for $500. The AST retriever would also do the job. Sold one of those years ago. I have used a SDS since they first became available in about 2001. Before that is was the above two tools.

I used the Snap-On 2500 to try and diagnose a run rich problem on a 93 400E.

It's been a few years, and I can still clearly recall what it did NOT observe.

Ultimate problem turned out to be a failed fuel pressure regulator. IIRC, pressure was supposed to be around 52 lbs, with a vacuum port that would allow some float to the cut off pressure. Actual measured pressure was off scale at 110 lbs. The scanner had no parameter that would clue you into this information.

The scanner looked at the O2 sensor duty cycle, fuel trim, checked ignition for each cylinder, rpm, and gave some data on the ETA, such as % open. there were several other items, cannot recall anymore.

Initially, we were suspicious of the ETA, but the scanner returned nothing that would conclusively prove or disprove if that were the cause.

Jim

Dave was interested in the format of the error codes that were reported by the MT-2500. Did the scanner report fault code numbers? If so were they two digit codes or three digit codes? Were there any descriptions supplied for the codes read?

It did report fault code numbers as I recall. I think they were 3 digit, and they did follow up with an explanation.

Again, it has been several years since I used your unit, and my memory is a bit foggy on this.

I had lots of notes (including the numbers and explanations) while trying to diagnose the issues with the 400E, but I'm sure I tossed those after I sold the car.

I know if you plug it into cousin Susie's 95 E320 wagon, you'll be sure to find at least a dozen set codes. :)

Jim

Hanno has a new 95 E320 that has a check engine light on, I'm busy tonight but maybe I'll give him a call and see if I could drive up to his place tomorrow night and see if I get two or three digit error codes.

Hey guys, thanks so much for the assistance... much appreciated!

:)

Dave,

I spoke with Hanno and he is really busy until next week, I'll get up there on Monday or Tuesday next week but you won't have your answer (at least from me!) until then.

Sorry - Tim.

Dave,

Sorry I can't be more specific, but has been a while, and I must have burned out those brain cells.

Fortunately, Linda's 95 E320 wagon has been percolating along without any problems, so I have not had a need to check codes.....

Jim

Oh, now I see whats going on...I'm going to be the poster child for this experiment. Let's connect his car to house current and see if it results in any codes?:eek: I'd be glad to help in this investigation. Note that I don't have a CEL on at the moment, its amazing what a new wiring harness can do. Tim, see you early next week.

I'm on the hunt for an inexpensive Impulse Counter for my 87' 560 SL. After several phone calls I may have to hire an archeologist to find one.

I don't think house current will be required... but I've always been willing to do what it takes to get the job done so make sure there are some extension cords on hand!!

It would be nice to provoke one of the codes Dave is dealing with, I think we should disconnect the stop lamp switch and see if we get a "02" code which would indicate the scanner reports in two digit format or an "006" code which would be more granular and indicate the MT-2500 can interpret codes in the three digit format.

Forum member JimF has an excellent web page that details how to make an impulse counter from parts available at radio shack for under $20.

Look at menu item #2 and page all the way down to the last page.

http://pages.prodigy.net/jforgione/MB_S500.html

If you don't want to build one PM me your address and I'll send you mine.

Hey, that's nice. Thanks, Tim. Thanks to you, too, Jim. If I understand what I've read correctly, that is what is required for the 107s and 126s would be reading.

The HTT is a 'poor' tool . . quote from a senior MB tech . .

This table shows that it's not an "infallible" tool for diagnosing EA problems just as a normal scanner (AST Retreiver, etc) isn't. It give ambiguous codes as the table below shows.

The sub-codes are shown (and read if at fault) in subsequent DTCs in most scanners.

So if you think the "HHT" will point to the 'culprit', you'll be dissapointed!

PM sent, thanks so much.

I missed this post somehow. The HHT (or other digital scanner that talks to MB OBD-1 systems) will do 100 times more than than a simple LED blink code reader to help point to the 'culprit'. And it does provide less-ambiguous codes than the analog blinks, although for some it may still not pinpoint them. However there are usually several codes, and by interpreting all the info provided, you can usually figure out what's going on.

I still have not found a scanner that is as comprehensive as the HHT. The MT-2500 does pretty well for the cost, but it has a number of annoying bugs in the software. I'm not sure if the CS2000 or AST Retriever were any better. The cheap Chinese SDS clones also have software & communication issues. The optimum tool is of course the genuine SDS, which is not affordable for a DIY user. And as Steve said, it emulates the original HHT for the early cars.

:nuke:

Dave, Can you clear up a question please? My 124 came with the first generation 8-pin diagnostic plug, push button and red LED (Calif version). I understand how the push button/LED works and what the separate pulses indicate. My question--does the early 8-pin connector also allow testing individual pins to get additional DTC as the later 16-pin and 38-pin ones do? If yes, can you direct me to the code key, b/c I've never seen anything but the codes referring to the LED pulses (in 1988, that was limited to 6 or 7 items). I hope my question is clear. Thanks.

Cal, the answer is a conditional "yes"... meaning that yes, there are additional codes available at the 8-pin diagnostic port, however this will depend on model year. Early 124's have almost nothing available except very basic diagnostics from only the LED (check engine light). Later 124's will have codes available for the climate control (pin 7), SRS (pin 6), and things like ASD and 4Matic (pin 5). Pin 4 will have the diesel codes (I think), pin 3 should have the CIS codes. (?) But that's about it from the 8-pin port. It depends what model you have, and what year, etc.

Click here for a generic code list. You'll need to look at your 8-pin port and see if any of those sockets have contacts or not... if they do, you may be able to pull more codes with an LED blinker box. However I don't believe any of the 8-pin (CIS) models will have any live data available via digital scanner. The models with live data available will either have 16-pin or 38-pin diagnostic socket.

:batman:

Someone looking particularly for W124 HFM/PMS Engine management scanner can try http://www.peachparts.com//shopforum/showthread.php?t=236925, It is pretty much equivalent to functionality of DAS with live data for these models. Even Activation's like turning off particular cylinder works. I found it pretty handy in diagnosing idle issue.

Will the MT2500 work for POST 2003 Mercedes? If not, is there one that will for similar money? I would like to find one that can read the widest year ranges, but to include the 2004's V12's that I have.

I have the Chinese Carsoft clone and adapters, but I'll be damned if I can figure it out when I connected it to the 1994 S600 Coupe.