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#1
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Is my W124 1994 E420 chassis hight normal, lowered, or sagging?
I am the fourth owner and the car is about 14 years old. I wonder if the chassis height is normal, or lowered, or simply sagging under the weight of the engine. I measured the distance between the ground and the rubber jack pad:
Front: 6.25" Rear: 6.5" Are these numbers and the difference between the two normal? I also took some side-view pictures of my car. Picture 1: https://app.onlinephotofiler.com/images/A_4/2/8/8/8824/Picture_002small_16e7f.JPG Picture 2: https://app.onlinephotofiler.com/images/A_4/2/8/8/8824/Picture_001small_76783.JPG Each shock and strut has a large "2" printed on it. I don't know what that signifies. My front dives too low on wavy road surface, but not on potholes. When it dives too low, the tire touches the fender wheel opening. I am pretty certain I need front struts, but may also need front springs. Without knowing the correct chassis height, it might be impossible to choose between comfort or sport struts, if the springs are not to be replaced. Should the springs be replaced? Please help!
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2004 E500 4Matic 138,000 miles Last edited by Andras; 12-12-2007 at 03:23 PM. |
#2
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Looking at the pictures, the ride height looks normal, but it looks like you have some 16" wheels with lower profile tires. Are you sure the rubbing is from bottoming out, or it from the wrong tire size? Normally, I'd say to do the "bounce test" on the shocks to see if they react worn. My usual procedure is to do the shocks first, then let that tell you if you need to do the springs.
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- Brian 1989 500SEL Euro 1966 250SE Cabriolet 1958 BMW Isetta 600 |
#3
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Looks normal, but these chassis are infamous for broken front spring at the last 2-3" of the coil at the bottom...you have to take the tire off and look in the bottom real close with a good light.
Mostly common in Norther/Winter climate zones ..if that is found to be the case , then when replacing the springs, ask for the Zinc Spring insert end caps..very cheap and will stop the fatique of the new spring at the bottom perch/mount. |
#4
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POS,
Thanks for your reply. The wheels on the picture are 15", but the tires are wider than OEM 215/60R15 Bridgestone Potenza RE950. This evening I installed my snow tires, which are 195/65R15 Winterforce. I will see if the fender touching continues. I did the bounce test of the shocks and they seem fine. They are stiff, hard to press, and return immediately to resting position. Please see pictures below. Arthur Dalton, Thanks for your reply. As I changed to my snow tires, I looked at the front suspension and took some pictures. The springs are positively not broken. My spring with colored dots: https://app.onlinephotofiler.com/images/A_4/2/8/8/8824/xny0dcfr.JPG My spring from behind with more misterious dots visible: https://app.onlinephotofiler.com/images/A_4/2/8/8/8824/2k13gjof.JPG My front lower control arm bushing is a little cracked, but I guess it is OK: https://app.onlinephotofiler.com/images/A_4/2/8/8/8824/jfp23bf3.JPG My other control arm bushing looks better: https://app.onlinephotofiler.com/images/A_4/2/8/8/8824/fhhkmoku.JPG My lower ball joint seems happy. It has no movement when prying under wheel nor lateral movement: https://app.onlinephotofiler.com/images/A_4/2/8/8/8824/ev1jx5vt.JPG My upper mount from below seems cracked: https://app.onlinephotofiler.com/images/A_4/2/8/8/8824/4ifychmp.JPG My strut bump stop looks worn or damaged: https://app.onlinephotofiler.com/images/A_4/2/8/8/8824/l2xclh5c.JPG My upper mount from above seems cracked: https://app.onlinephotofiler.com/images/A_4/2/8/8/8824/opxoppqd.JPG My upper mount,another pic: https://app.onlinephotofiler.com/images/A_4/2/8/8/8824/nkcoj3zr.JPG My driver side upper mount seems worse: https://app.onlinephotofiler.com/images/A_4/2/8/8/8824/x2p1m5c1.JPG Should I change the struts, the upper mount and bump stop, or neither? There is also some clunking when going over potholes, more on the left wide than right. Since my ball joints look good, I would attribute that to the upper mounts or possibly struts. But again, bouncing the car shows firmness and instant return to normal position. Thanks, Andras
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2004 E500 4Matic 138,000 miles Last edited by Andras; 12-12-2007 at 09:57 PM. |
#5
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The bounce test really does not work for bilsteins. They can lose their effectiveness and give a rough ride without failing totally. The small area where they move up and down in normal driving will wear out and the areas above and below not be worn at all, giving a poor ride but on the bounce test working just fine.
Tom W
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual. ![]() ..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis. |
#6
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i would replace the upper mounts on the shocks first[cheap and easy to do].one of the ways that i check front end on your car is to push down on front bumper and see if suspension has enough travel.bilsteins tend to lose the travel but still provide shocking action as they wear.gut feeling----with mounts that worn i would replace both.
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David S Poole European Performance Dallas, TX 4696880422 "Fortune favors the prepared mind" 1987 Mercedes Benz 420SEL 1988 Mercedes Benz 300TE (With new evaporator) 2000 Mercedes Benz C280 http://www.w108.org/gallery/albums/A...1159.thumb.jpg |
#7
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David,
I push down on the bumper and it is stiff, travels about an inch with smooth and constant resistance. I don't know if these are Bilstein struts, or how old they are, unless you can tell from the photos. t walgamuth, I do have poor ride, not only because the summer tires hit the fender (I am checking if this happens with my winter tires), but also have loose steering, most evident around 40 mph when traveling straight. On turns at the same speed it is sure-footed. At speeds over 60 mph it is more steady, the faster I go the happier and the more steady the car seems to be. (Maybe it is homesick for the autobahn.) ![]()
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2004 E500 4Matic 138,000 miles Last edited by Andras; 12-14-2007 at 10:39 AM. |
#8
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from what i recall you should have about 3 times that amount of travel.i certainly do on my 88te.
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David S Poole European Performance Dallas, TX 4696880422 "Fortune favors the prepared mind" 1987 Mercedes Benz 420SEL 1988 Mercedes Benz 300TE (With new evaporator) 2000 Mercedes Benz C280 http://www.w108.org/gallery/albums/A...1159.thumb.jpg |
#9
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Your sway bar bushings are quite worn.
See top right of this picture -> https://app.onlinephotofiler.com/images/A_4/2/8/8/8824/ev1jx5vt.JPG They are inexpensive, and you need two wrenches to put them on (and a little bit of muscle, but not lots). You will notice an improvement.
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It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so. Robert A. Heinlein 09 Jetta TDI 1985 300D |
#10
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Larry,
Thanks for picking this up. I missed it, and the bushings are probably responsible for at least part of my problems.
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2004 E500 4Matic 138,000 miles |
#11
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I replaced all parts in question and most of my problems have been resolved, except the car still seems to have somewhat loose steering, most evident around 40 mph when traveling straight. The steering wheel has a 1" play without moving the wheels. I think I can eliminate some of the play by tightening the steering gear to 1/2" play.
Here are the details of what I did and their affect: I changed the wheels and tires from 215/60R15 Bridgestone Potenza RE950 to my snow tires, which are 195/65R15 Winterforce. The rubbing of fender lip over wavy roads stopped. I am no longer concerned with my chassis height, springs, struts. I will get 5 (1 for spare) 8-hole 16" wheels and 205 size Kumho tires for Spring to Fall. I changed the 4 front sway bar bushings. This improved steering response, and probably eliminated the clunking noise. I changed the upper mounts, bellows, and bump stops. This improved the road feel; unevenness of the surface is transferred to the car better. Thank you again for all who helped!
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2004 E500 4Matic 138,000 miles |
#12
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Glad to hear there was improvement.
Did you replace the rear sway bar links as well?
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It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so. Robert A. Heinlein 09 Jetta TDI 1985 300D |
#13
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I did not get a chance to closely look at or touch the rear yet. The front outer sway bar bushings were so worn, once I unbolted their brackets they practically fell off!
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2004 E500 4Matic 138,000 miles |
#14
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I replaced mine, and it was pretty easy to do. I had to take the wheel off to get to them easily. Probably took 10 - 15 mins a side (inc. wheel removal).
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It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so. Robert A. Heinlein 09 Jetta TDI 1985 300D |
#15
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Idler arm bushings! $20 kit, about an hour's work; found them on my 300SEL, clunk in front end, found the bushings shot! If you can't wiggle the bolt out (throw it away any way) cut the head off it and install upside down so you don't have to remove the entire exhaust from the manifold back! Don't even have to remove the tie rod joint thingies.
I've learned my lesson about betting, but I'll bet yours are shot too!
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1991 300 SEL 218,000 Km "Xsbank's rules of mechanical intervention: Always go for the easiest solution first; 90% of what ails a gasoline engine is ignition; After that its all a WAG." |
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