$4200.00 engine because hose collapsed. - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

dkveuro · #1 05-30-2008, 02:10 PM

I need help and suggestions here folks. Here's the story.

A collapsed tank to pump hose internally delaminated and caused a super lean engine melt down. Engine had covered around 9000 miles.

NAPA supplied me the Hose...stamped with :
#4219D 5/16 inch (7.9mm) SEA 30R9 180 PSI WP CARB NO.C-U-06-002 GATES CORPORATION MADE IN MEXICO EPA 40 CFR 1051.110AMO53107 245FUEL INJECTION HOSE.

I am carrying engine under 1 year warranty after installing it last November 2007.

Customer called me to say coolant all over road.
I stripped engine to find eroded #1 and #2 cylinder head deck near fire ring and 1 and 2 pistons smeared up and down the cylinder walls.

NAPA basically said it's up to GATES, so I'm getting the runaround ?

I was thinking last night...if this had been a Brake Hose let go and caused an accident...there would be serious repercussions.

Ford Wilderness tyre deal? http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B07E3D7123DF930A15756C0A9679C8B63

I think this falls under 'Merchantability'...'Product Liability'...or 'Fit for the Purpose'.. Anyone know of any court presidents ?

TMAllison · #2 05-30-2008, 02:59 PM

Devils advocate - what caused reduction/stoppage in flow allowing pump to create sufficient suction to collapse the hose?

dkveuro · #3 05-30-2008, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMAllison

Devils advocate - what caused reduction/stoppage in flow allowing pump to create sufficient suction to collapse the hose?

The hose proper did not collapse....only the internal lining membrane.

It took me some time to find the problem because the condition is not visible from the outside.

I was monitoring fuel pressure on the replacement engine due to unsteady high rpm and very lean O2 reading and no amount of juggling with the AFC made it higher than 0.035vdc or so.

I clamped off the return line hose and only got a 5 psi or less rise in pressure ( run pressure 36psi.) and these pumps dead head at 90 psi.

This is when I started dismantling the fuel delivery hoses one by one until I got back to the tank and found I had no flow from the hose on the tank outlet. Had about 2 1/2 gallons in tank at this point.

I pulled the hose off and found I could blow though to the tank but not to the pump. This is when I cut open the hose along it's length and found the inner lining had come away from the main hose body for about 4 inches of it's length effectively cutting off fuel if fuel is PULLED from the tank as when it is low on fuel, but if the tank is full the head pressure kept the flow going.

The inner lining is about 1mm thick and very soft. Rest of hose was ok.
I have used hard line now to fuel the pump so it will not happen again.

The way it was re hosed for the other engine was a copy of how it leaves the factory. I now understand why it took some miles to melt down as he left here with 1/2 tank being as it ran well here on road test of 50 plus miles.

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Palangi · #4 05-30-2008, 07:32 PM

Could fuel addatives have been a factor? For example, people were going crazy with acetone a year ago or so.

mpolli · #5 05-30-2008, 08:06 PM

My .02 is that all that will stand up in court is testimony from an "expert witness". So you need to find someone who is a professional expert on collapsed hoses and see what they will charge to investigate and write a report, and then how much to testify in court. Then there are your lawyer fees. Might be cheaper to buy a new engine and don't buy Gates hoses. You might contact Gates to see what they say. I had a Champion spark plug that disintegrated in my Toyota and wrecked the engine. I took it back to the auto parts store and the guy says "Yeah Champion's do that". ???? Did I ask them to buy me a new engine? No. I just cut my losses. Hard to prove that it isn't "something" I did.

TMAllison · #6 05-30-2008, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpolli

Hard to prove that it isn't "something" I did.

I think that is the sad truth....you may be very correct in your analysis. In court an attorney is going to ask how you can prove that they are at fault and then suggest that you may have stepped on that length of hose and crush it or the driver may have high centered the car or a zillion other possibilities that will cast doubt on your claim.

MTI · #7 05-30-2008, 08:48 PM

I probably will agree that "expert testimony" will be required to carry the day, since the issues will involve:

Was this a failure of design or manufacture?

Was this a failure which was unforseeable?

Were there any contributory causes of the failure, such as improper maintenance or installation, which either caused or exacerbated the conditions which led to failure.

dkveuro · #8 05-30-2008, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMAllison

...........suggest that you may have stepped on that length of hose and crush it or the driver may have high centered the car or a zillion other possibilities that will cast doubt on your claim.

Yeah

...good point.

Couldn't they also say, the tire/s may have been over or under inflated too ?http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B07E3D7123DF930A15756C0A9679C8B63

.......Tire-related crashes of Ford Explorers, almost always involving vehicles that rolled over after a tire's tread peeled off, have killed more than 100 Americans, mostly in hot-weather states, especially Texas, and mostly during the summers of 1999 and 2000.

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CamelotShadow · #9 05-30-2008, 11:58 PM

Yeah & even if you win
it might just be a new Gates hose...

LOL

Sucks

ctaylor738 · #10 05-31-2008, 09:26 PM

Sorry about the engine trouble, but why do you believe that this failure was caused by a lean fuel mixture? Fuel lines, filters, and tank strainers clog up all the time, and the engines simply stop or won't start. They don't self-destruct like this, If you are going to pursue this, I think that you would have a heavy burden to prove that this was the cause of the engine failure.