runningtoohot,
i think you actually won't see any symptom unless you move the harness (or if the harness has been moved) at which point the individual wiring insulation disintegrates. in my case my local indy was doing the head gasket, so of course he had to do something with the harness. the failure is this case was that the engine would just start stumbling when they touched the wires to the fuel injectors. they tried to chase it down by wrapping the exposed wires that they found before they realized how bad it all was. you won't see how bad it is because the wires are all within the harness. check out the wiring harness picture thread where the inside of a harness is shown.

RTH - I have my '95 E320 for sale if you are interested. The head gasket and wiring harness have alreadby been changed. Email me if you want more information. Car is at 110,xxx miles and is in excellent condition with many new parts.
Let me know.

__________________
Jim

allenjdmb and all concerned,

venting is all well and good and i participate in that sort of activity myself, BTDT. it would be a shame if we can't leverage the collective influence of the members of this forum to get a rise out of MB if anything. i am making a collection of threads about leaking head gaskets and faulty wiring harness. maybe we can send it in along with an appropriately worded communique to the VP for customer relations, if not the CEO of MB in the US. i mean, hands down, this is the source for information on MB in the US if not the world. that's got to have some kind of weight in terms of public opinion don't you think?

what do you say?

I bought my first M B, in 1997, a 1995 C280, that spent more time in the shop then my garage.
I sold in January 1999 about 3 hours after the ad hit the street. I gave the customer all the service records,and she still bought it.
I sold it for 25,000 about 6,000 more than the dealer would give me.
We bought a 1999 C 280 that has been great,except for the dealer.Recently they replaced the windshield and left the interior covered in black dust with glass shareds on the mats.
In July we bought our 1991 560 SEC from them.They said they did a134 point check on the car. Just out of there 30 day warranty the front breaks went. 1,000 miles since there so called check and the brakes were worn out.
In four years I have bought 3 cars from this same dealer. Well never again.The SEC has such low milage,and is in such great condition that I couldn`t resist. But never again from this dealer.
There Service Dept. has been repeatedly terrible,they use a shawalla to wash cars!!!!
I can get parts cheaper and quicker from Caliber Motors in California,3000 miles away!!!!!!!!!

I`ve heard Kia has great service and a 100,000 mile warranty!
John

It`s a rotateing scruber attached to a rod which in turn is attached to a garden hose. The thing scratches like crazy. It`s advertised on TV.

They have standing orders not to wash the outside of my cars.

John

In my most humble opinion and theory. This is what happened (is happening) with the harness. In the late 80s there was a large push by environmental concerns primarily in Germany to make more parts of the automobile recyclable, including the harness. You all must have seen the lettering on the plastic parts which identify the type of material (PA-GF) etc. What has most likely happened is the compounds used in the insulation were changed to allow the plastics to be removed from the copper wiring chemically in some sort of vat. I am sure there was lots of testing prior to the release of the new wire but something was missed obviously. I have no proof of this, it is just a theory but it all adds up.

Problems in the vehicle due to the harness defect vary greatly. Misfire, damage to control units and actuators etc. If you even suspect a bad harness replace it, the HFM, TT/LLR, EGAS units are expensive. BTW, the short harness to the throttle actuators also often exhibit the insulation failures.

As far as the automaker.....there is no way in hell that anything will be published by them officially, putting them on the hook for millions of dollars in repairs and bad press. Push them to sell you the harness at the absolute bottom line price, even at cost if you can. Install it yourself. On a 104 motor it takes less than an hour.

an hour? the dealer quotes 2.5 and my indy 3.5. the list price on the part is $516. i got a break on the part through my indy as he probably gets some kind of special pricing through his connections. is this really a DIY job? i'd love to do it and save a few bucks but i threw my back out a couple of weeks ago and i can't spend any time under the hood these days...

__________________
joE
1993 300e-2.8 - gone now <sigh>
"Do not adjust your mind, it's reality that's malfunctioning"
http://banners.wunderground.com/bann...L/Key_West.gif

that this whole thing is just hilarious. This last post just bears it out even more. 2.5 hours at a franchised dealer to install the thing is not really that bad, considering that many shops in the system charge up to 8 HOURS! This is reason for my anger in the first place, and hence the title of this thread--SCAM continues. By offering you the harness under goodwill, they force you to take their labor--which according to dealers, NJ or various customers is A: the dealers sole discretion B: NJ's sole discretion or C: however much they can get by with until you scream. In my last case my dealer charged me 7.7 hours. Delaerships have large investments and should make money. But any honest tech can tell you that this install takes an experienced tech about 50 minutes.

Daimler Benz: We don't make automobiles. We just make money.

and MB is laughing all the way to the bank.

they get you either way. 8 hrs @$78/hr is still about $700 with tax etc if the part is offered gratis. it's costing me about the same with my part discount and all...

__________________
joE
1993 300e-2.8 - gone now <sigh>
"Do not adjust your mind, it's reality that's malfunctioning"
http://banners.wunderground.com/bann...L/Key_West.gif

Becomes clearer!....

My experience is that the dealer is as important as the manufacturer in the relationship. I am one of those who has had to contend with ongoing woes from a '92 300TE 4matic (89,000mi). My dealer has been courteous and reasonable throughout, negotiating on my behalf with MBUSA on certain aspects of repairs. The latest was a transfer case failure about 1 year after a transfer case replacement. The first replacement was partially covered by MBUSA and/or the dealer. My share was not small but I saved about $1000. The second repair was done essentially the same way, with a smaller share for me, given the relatively short time since the last repair (but it was still more than a year). One of the things that bears on this is that I have bought 10 or 11 cars from the same dealership over the last 17 years. When I insist that my loyalty be reciprocated, they usually respond. But they do have an overall attitude that the customer is important, and I keep going back precisely because of the service department. Many dealers should learn from this as a way to increase their overall business instead of making one-shot sales to customers who will not return. And MBUSA should learn too that the way they can gain repeat business is to earn it by standing behind their products. They ought to look at every satisified customer as an auxiliary saleperson.

__________________
Alan Weinschel
2001 S500 Capri Blue
2004 E320 4matic Wagon Tectite
1992 300TE 4matic Black Pearl
2000 BMW 540ia Anthracite

jsmith,

Take a look at the thread I started to try to find out if my harness had been changed:

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?postid=127615&t=1654#post127615

I went to my local dealer and had them run a "Vehicle Master Inquiry" report. This item came up under the "Campaigns" section. The service advisor just told me on the phone that if the repair hadn't been done that the printout would show it as open(mine says closed). This would give you some additional leverage with them if you get the report and it shows that they ran an active campaign but yours is still open. Maybe you've been down this path, but it's an idea.

__________________
D.H.

04 ML500
02 E430

Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

Precisely what years and what models are affected by the wiring harness problem? Is it only cars built from 1992 to 1995?

Also, if the plastic sheathing on the harness in back of the engine is falling apart and disintegrating, should the plastic sheathing be replaced? If so, can I buy an inexpensive sheathing that is slit along its entire length to use as a replacement sheathing (instead of the expensive sheathing from MB which is not slit, and probably therefore difficult to install)?

Thanks very much for any help.

Mike

We have a 1996 C220, when I went to our dealer/service department I was told the wiring harness alone as in with out labor and before taxes would be over $1000. I was afraid to ask what it would total with installation. My husband is checking to see if we can fall under the goodwill policy, but I don't have high hopes.

TMWing

TMWing,
I don't think your year model is affected. The cost for W124 harnesses is in the $500 range. How was your car diagnosed to have this problem?

Saguaro2000,
Not sure what sheathing you are talking about. The wiring harness is a bundle of wires that is sheathed in a tough fabric tape. The problem with the wires is in the individual insulation which gets brittle and falls off.

__________________
joE
1993 300e-2.8 - gone now <sigh>
"Do not adjust your mind, it's reality that's malfunctioning"
http://banners.wunderground.com/bann...L/Key_West.gif