1995 E320 - Engine missing badly during acceleration - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

ksing44 · #1 05-27-2009, 05:15 AM

I have a 1995 E320 W124 with 119K miles. It started a few weeks ago, but it only seemed to happen when the car was cold. At first I was thinking maybe it had something to with the choke fuel mixture controls. Yesterday it was pretty bad even after it warmed up. When I push the gas the car just kind of sputters until it finally takes off more or less like normal. To me it feels kind of like the spark plugs may not be firing or like when an engine is being flooded with too much fuel to burn.

This may be wishful thinking, but I'm hoping maybe this is common if it has been a while since the plugs were changed. I have to admit that some of those routine things that were done routinely at the dealer have become only as needed items at my Indy. Something is definitely needed now. It has been a while since I did any engine tuning maintenance things. No warning lights are showing on the dash.

I will be making an appointment ASAP at my Indy, maybe even today, but I was hoping maybe someone here would give me some hope that this is likely only a minor issue and suggest a path forward.

Ferdman · #2 05-27-2009, 06:46 AM

ksing44, my guess would be that the rear-most coil pack is bad ... had a similar experience with our 1995 E320 (which I diagnosed and repaired myself via trial & error by installing a new coil pack in each of the three positions). I'm sure Rex Carle's shop can quickly diagnose and repair the problem.

ksing44 · #3 05-27-2009, 08:37 AM

I've been going to K&S Automotive, even though they are not Mercedes Specialists like Rex. I just really like and trust the guys and liked and trusted their dads before them. I hope they can figure it out too. I will give them your suggestion.

Thanks again,

Ken

J. M. van Swaay · #4 05-27-2009, 08:55 AM

I had a very similar problem with my 94 E320 Wagon. It also turned out to be a bad coil. Mine was a bit difficult to diagnose because no codes were present. I know there was a production run of coils with a rather high failure rate, I'm not 100% sure but I think they are identifiable because they are blue in color. Another common cause for misfire is the coil to plug connector, lots of searchable information on this. As always, posts by Arthur Dalton are always spot on. Fortunately, niether of the above are very expensive, coils are about $75 from our site sponser, plug connectors are less than $5. I would think not more than 2 hours labor would be reasonable for diagnosis and repair.

G-Benz · #5 05-27-2009, 11:02 AM

Coil pack failures are not common.

Most likely, the plug wires are aged. Mine did the same thing, and fresh wires did the trick.

Bad plug wires will cause other issues, such as plug fouling and O2 sensor failure (which occurred as a result of the bad wires).

Arthur Dalton · #6 05-27-2009, 12:02 PM

Want to a waste basket full of them..
VERY common on HFM/SFI Waste Spark/DIS Ignition systems.

But more probable is the 3 plug connector/resistors under each coil.

G-Benz · #7 05-27-2009, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arthur Dalton

Want to a waste basket full of them..
VERY common on HFM/SFI Waste Spark/DIS Ignition systems.

But more probable is the 3 plug connector/resistors under each coil.

Well, you would know from experience, but my coils have been through a lot of abuse (e.g., water, after washing motor several times), and despite all of that, always tested fine.

I figure the plug wires will eventually succumb to age, whereas the coils are a more expensive proposition if you are just swapping them out without knowing which one is bad...

Arthur Dalton · #8 05-27-2009, 09:31 PM

Yes, I would know.

Waste spark coils were so notorious that they changed the design 3 times.
B/c yours are not bad is not a reason to post that they did not have a common problem with them, cuz they had plenty of problems ..ask anyone who had the Early Blue ones....NOTORIOUS
...and we do not swap out ANY parts until we know they are bad.

gsfent · #9 05-27-2009, 10:29 PM

For the OP, how about the wiring harness? Outer sheathing disintegrates because of heat. Known item to go bad, expensive part last time I checked!! Hope it turns out to be something cheap and simple like a coil pack.
Regards,
Jerry

ksing44 · #10 05-28-2009, 02:53 AM

Today my car ran much much better. It was hot and sunny, but yesterday is was raining. That dramatic change from moisture makes me think it is electrical. I remember the old days and having to remove and dry out a distributor cap. I just hope it is easy to diagnose, even if it isn't acting really bad when I take it in to my Indy on Wednesday. That was the earliest they could see me.

I'm going to be fixing my car up a bit to let my son have it. That way I don't actually have to part with the car that I have loved all these years. It will just be driven locally.

G-Benz · #11 05-28-2009, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arthur Dalton

Yes, I would know.

Waste spark coils were so notorious that they changed the design 3 times.
B/c yours are not bad is not a reason to post that they did not have a common problem with them, cuz they had plenty of problems ..ask anyone who had the Early Blue ones....NOTORIOUS
...and we do not swap out ANY parts until we know they are bad.

Actually, I quoted my indie on the coil failure issues based on his personal experience...since I only tool around on my own vehicles, I don't have enough background history to dictate what is and what isn't normal...should have stressed that from the start.

And I know you personally don't just swap parts out...I was referring to the premise of which is cheaper if one was to go about diagnosing a problem by doing just that. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Ironically, now that ksing44 mentions improved performance with the weather, it really does point to coils...a corroded primary terminal on my VW coil gave me the same grief during moist weather...no issues when sunny.

johng99 · #12 05-28-2009, 05:39 PM

My '95 E320 was doing the same thing at 100,000 miles. A change of plugs, O2 Sensor cleared it up.

Arthur Dalton · #13 05-28-2009, 05:50 PM

< __________________
>

Yes , moisture is nasty on any cars secondary ignition system

An old trick we used to use if the car was having a hard time starting/runnng in rainy weather was to coat the wires with a quick spray of WD-40,,if the car started right off, we knew the wires were junk..WD is a Moisture displacer [ Water Displacement is the WD part]
But on the Waste spark , I agree that first suspect before coils is the coil to plug connectors under each coil...they are very common, to the the point that most Techs will change then at each plug change b/c of their known fail rate..but the waste coils are still high on the list, mostly due to the fact that they use One coil to fire two cylinders , in Series ..us they are heat trapped with their location...
Anyway..if one does suspect a failing coil in these systems , by moving the suspect coil to another location and seeing if the misfire follows the swap is a cheapo diagnostic trick for the DIY who has no Scope, etc...that is a diyer way of part failure confimation before purchase.

G-Benz · #14 05-29-2009, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arthur Dalton

...Anyway..if one does suspect a failing coil in these systems , by moving the suspect coil to another location and seeing if the misfire follows the swap is a cheapo diagnostic trick for the DIY who has no Scope, etc...that is a diyer way of part failure confimation before purchase...

When my indie was diagnosing my misfire issue, he noted that when plugs were pulled, two of them (from the same coil pack) were fouled. So he changed all plugs and swapped coils to see if the problem would travel to the suspected defective coil.

I drove the car for a couple of weeks.

When he pulled the plugs again, the same two were fouled, despite the coil swap. That led to the conclusion that it was bad plug wires, not coil. Replacing wires cured the misfire in my cases, but unfortunately, collateral damage had already manifested in the form of a fouled catalytic converter and shot O2 sensor.

I suspect that I am eventually going to lose the coils considering they are original...

Arthur Dalton · #15 05-29-2009, 10:25 AM

<
When he pulled the plugs again, the same two were fouled, despite the coil swap.>

Yes, that is why we always change the resistor plug connectors under the coils first.....and everytime the plugs are changed. One bad Coil Connector effects both plugs on that system b/c the plugs are wired in Series.
The problem is the connectors under the coil are a spring contact, whereas the other plug in that series has a much better snap connecton.
They are a maint. item and last about 50K. As they age , they burden the coils, with the main fear of taxing the trigger circuits in the ECU. Being a DIS system, all switching is done at ECU and to tax that can be very costly..so, the connectors under the coils w/plug change is cheap insurance.
Plus, a large percentage of mis-fires on DIS HFM systems is those 3 connectors. It is always the first recommend when misfire is the condition. If coils are suspect on that chassis , one simply goes into pin #8 of the Module and looks for a 21/22/23 codes ..those usually pop with a coil malfunction..it is after we see that , that we do the swap and then simply go back and see if , for example, if a 22 has moved to a 23 ..then we know right away the condition has followed the offending coil..no driving around for weeks and looking at plugs ,etc..