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  #1  
Old 06-06-2009, 07:27 PM
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can I use a tap to clean cylinder head bolt holes

I am getting ready to put the head back on my 1989 300TE with an m103 engine, I know there is a tool Mercedes has for cleaning the head bolt holes but I was wondering if I could use a tap? If so does it matter if it is a starter or bottom tap? and also what size should I get if it is ok to use one.

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  #2  
Old 06-06-2009, 10:04 PM
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well, a tap is ok but i use an old head bolt. if you have the head off, you should have a box of new bolts. take an old bolt, cut a groove into the threads and use that for a cleaner. the groove allows the crap to come out. machinists have avoided taps for fear it might remove metal also. good luck, chuck.
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  #3  
Old 06-06-2009, 10:20 PM
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If you use a tap get one with a flat end so it will clean all the way down in the hole.
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  #4  
Old 06-07-2009, 12:14 AM
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I just completed a head job on a M104. What I did was buy some steel wire brushes (about $5.00 for a pack of 10) that had long wire handles. I then took a hack saw and cut the handles to the length I needed. I placed the cut-off brush in my drill and it worked very well, very fast too. I'd shy away from using a tap because if you get it off centered you'll end up cutting into your good threads, which is very easy to do with an aluminum head.

Get you some wire wheels to clean all the flat surfaces on the head, your combustion chambers and the block. You will also want to make sure that the flat surfaces are flat by taking a straight edge and placing in length wise on the bottom of the head. Then take a piece of paper and see if you can slide it under the straight edge. If the paper fits under the straight edge you will need to get the head surfaced. If not you should be OK.
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  #5  
Old 06-07-2009, 08:09 AM
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I only use my fingers to clean the threads with a tap. ... No danger of damaging them that way.
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  #6  
Old 06-07-2009, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by porkface View Post
well, a tap is ok but i use an old head bolt. if you have the head off, you should have a box of new bolts. take an old bolt, cut a groove into the threads and use that for a cleaner. the groove allows the crap to come out. machinists have avoided taps for fear it might remove metal also. good luck, chuck.

Unfortunately I tossed the old bolts in the trash last week thinking what the heck am I keeping used head bolts for anyway (damn). When you say cut a groove into the treads do you mean cut a groove the length of the bolt so it go's across the threads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ehopkins View Post
I just completed a head job on a M104. What I did was buy some steel wire brushes (about $5.00 for a pack of 10) that had long wire handles. I then took a hack saw and cut the handles to the length I needed. I placed the cut-off brush in my drill and it worked very well, very fast too. I'd shy away from using a tap because if you get it off centered you'll end up cutting into your good threads, which is very easy to do with an aluminum head.
Are these brushes that could fit into the head bolt holes, if so where did you get them from because I have never seen them that small.
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  #7  
Old 06-07-2009, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
I only use my fingers to clean the threads with a tap. ... No danger of damaging them that way.
Yeah, this is what I was thinking of.


I am not sure I am going to do it like this now but just in case no other alternative comes up I might have to go with this.
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  #8  
Old 06-07-2009, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by dka-66 View Post
Are these brushes that could fit into the head bolt holes, if so where did you get them from because I have never seen them that small.
I bought them at Harbor Freight Tools. The pack of ten or so are different sizes some are steel and some are brass.
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  #9  
Old 06-07-2009, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehopkins View Post
I just completed a head job on a M104. What I did was buy some steel wire brushes (about $5.00 for a pack of 10) that had long wire handles. I then took a hack saw and cut the handles to the length I needed. I placed the cut-off brush in my drill and it worked very well, very fast too. I'd shy away from using a tap because if you get it off centered you'll end up cutting into your good threads, which is very easy to do with an aluminum head.

Get you some wire wheels to clean all the flat surfaces on the head, your combustion chambers and the block. You will also want to make sure that the flat surfaces are flat by taking a straight edge and placing in length wise on the bottom of the head. Then take a piece of paper and see if you can slide it under the straight edge. If the paper fits under the straight edge you will need to get the head surfaced. If not you should be OK.
Gotta take issue with a few things in this post.
1. A sheet of paper is probably too thick to use to check for a warped head. It also isn't rigid and flat enough to reliably pass under the straightedge. You need a REAL straightedge (a machinist's straightedge) and you are checking for flatness of around .002" (depends on the manufacturer's specification). Use feeler gauges.
2. Do NOT use wire wheels to clean any flat aluminum surfaces!!! I cannot emphasize this enough! The wire wheels will remove aluminum and DESTROY the sealing surface. Even on an iron block you should use care with a wire wheel.
3. Careful use of a tap is fine for cleaning up threads in a block. (You wouldn't be cleaning head bolt hole threads in a head.) In fact careful use of a tap would damage the threads less and remove the junk better than a wire brush, although a wire brush might be "OK." If you use a wire brush you have to be sure no stray bits of brushes (pieces of wire) are left behind.
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  #10  
Old 06-07-2009, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonL View Post
Gotta take issue with a few things in this post.
1. A sheet of paper is probably too thick to use to check for a warped head. It also isn't rigid and flat enough to reliably pass under the straightedge. You need a REAL straightedge (a machinist's straightedge) and you are checking for flatness of around .002" (depends on the manufacturer's specification). Use feeler gauges.

A piece of notebook paper is .004 to .006 thick. Its what I used and it worked fine for me. No leaks or issues with the gasket seating correctly. Are you saying anything greater than .002, one should have the head resurfaced? While I don't know what the MB spec is I'd think it is more than. 002.

2. Do NOT use wire wheels to clean any flat aluminum surfaces!!! I cannot emphasize this enough! The wire wheels will remove aluminum and DESTROY the sealing surface. Even on an iron block you should use care with a wire wheel.

Once again, I used a wire wheel on mine with a hand drill and it turnd out fine. No scratches on the head's surface or anything. Just a finely cleaned surface. You surely can use it safely on a iron block.

3. Careful use of a tap is fine for cleaning up threads in a block. (You wouldn't be cleaning head bolt hole threads in a head.) In fact careful use of a tap would damage the threads less and remove the junk better than a wire brush, although a wire brush might be "OK." If you use a wire brush you have to be sure no stray bits of brushes (pieces of wire) are left behind.

I used the wire brushes because I didn't have a tap and die set. And again, this method worked fine for me. I was careful to clean out all holes with a magnetic tip pointer.

I would only recommend something that I know would work and has worked for me.
//
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  #11  
Old 06-07-2009, 11:33 PM
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I don't recall the MB spec, but I doubt it is over .004". It could even be .002". I'm glad the paper worked for you, but I think it would be far too easy to feel that a slip of paper won't pass through the gap just because it isn't stiff enough to do so. The right way is feeler gauges, without a doubt. Paper, matchbooks, etc, are adequate to set breaker points in a pinch, not to rebuild an engine.

As for the wire wheel on aluminum, again, I'm glad it worked for you. Unfortunately it is a well known way to ruin aluminum heads, and many manufacturers issue specific advisories against it. As I said it is OK on iron, but care should be taken as with everything when rebuilding an engine.

I felt it necessary to make my comments because I think someone without advanced skills or a sensitivity to the treatment of the parts could easily get into trouble using some of these methods.
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  #12  
Old 06-08-2009, 12:24 AM
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Cylinder Head Straightness Spec 603,602

Service Manual Diesel Engines 603, 602:
permissible unevenness of mating surface in mm

longitudinal direction 0.08 = .00314"
transverse direction 0.0
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  #13  
Old 06-08-2009, 01:03 AM
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My .004 paper spec is bigger than the allowable 0.003149 MB spec.
Gosh darn, I'm going to have to pull my head and have it straightened then.
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  #14  
Old 06-08-2009, 01:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehopkins View Post
My .004 paper spec is bigger than the allowable 0.003149 MB spec.
Gosh darn, I'm going to have to pull my head and have it straightened then.
I'm not trying to be argumentative. Do what you want with your car, if it works for you and you are happy that's good. I'm glad you are posting the methods you've used, but I think it is imprudent to state potentially harmful methods without also discussing the approved or more generally accepted methods.

Obviously you aren't going to pull your head. (Unless it starts to leak again....) But using paper instead of a $5 set of feeler blades is just plain foolish. And without a set of feeler gauges one really can't know what their head's flatness is.
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  #15  
Old 06-08-2009, 12:45 PM
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In my experience, wire wheels can do a good job or be too aggressive on the surface. It depends on the wire thickness. Wires with thickness ≤0.008" do a gentle job of removing deposits and polishing the metal.

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