manual transmission into a w210/ e300? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

satyr · #1 08-15-2010, 11:17 AM

I rode in a black 96-99 e300 (or unbadged euro equivalent) in Holland ten years ago and fell in love. This "limosine" version was beautiful and the driver raved about it. Ever since, I have dreamed of owning something like this.

I love my euro w201 190d 4spd, but would like to get something a little bigger and would like to find out if it would be possible to do an automatic to standard tranny conversion in a 96-99 e300 because importing one seems out of the question due to the newer epa regs.

I have researched this in the past, and I know there are issues with the ecu (in later models?). I thought someone said the 96 model with the older 4spd auto tranny would be the best for such a swap. I have also read about people looking to install non-MB trannies in w210s as well, primarily because there are so many lying around and our MB manual trannies are all but non-existent.

Please let me know what you all think. I think it would be good to gather info on a w210 tranny swap in this thread too because the other threads are pretty scant on information about how to do this if possible.

Thanks- John

mbdoc · #2 08-17-2010, 08:43 AM

Yes, you could install a manual trans from a 1986-87 300E or from a 1990-92 300SL.

You would need a donor car to get all of the parts.

The front of the driveshaft might need modified.

satyr · #3 08-19-2010, 12:07 AM

Excellent. Thanks for the reply MBDoc! I know the manual tranny diesel E200, (diesel manual w210) in Germany are badged "E200 classic." So I knew there HAD to be a compatible tranny. Is it true that it would only be compatible with the 96 model?

tjts1 · #4 08-19-2010, 12:12 AM

M102, M103, M104, M111 and OM601-606 all share the same block to transmission bolt pattern. There is even a 6 speed you could fit.

mbdoc · #5 08-19-2010, 08:14 AM

All of the 1997 & later USA MB's have electronic auto transmissions, so there would be Can issues if the transmission ECU wasn't there to talk to the other computers on the Can.

Gilly · #6 08-19-2010, 08:58 AM

Heh heh, all the US control modules would have to learn German just to accomodate that one arrogant German control module, huh?

tjts1 · #7 08-19-2010, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M.B.DOC

All of the 1997 & later USA MB's have electronic auto transmissions, so there would be Can issues if the transmission ECU wasn't there to talk to the other computers on the Can.

We're talking about manuals, not automatic. There is nothing to control the manual except your left foot and right hand. Any of the above listed will bolt up.

#8 08-19-2010, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by satyr

I rode in a black 96-99 e300 (or unbadged euro equivalent) in Holland ten years ago and fell in love. This "limosine" version was beautiful and the driver raved about it. Ever since, I have dreamed of owning something like this.

I love my euro w201 190d 4spd, but would like to get something a little bigger and would like to find out if it would be possible to do an automatic to standard tranny conversion in a 96-99 e300 because importing one seems out of the question due to the newer epa regs.

I have researched this in the past, and I know there are issues with the ecu (in later models?). I thought someone said the 96 model with the older 4spd auto tranny would be the best for such a swap. I have also read about people looking to install non-MB trannies in w210s as well, primarily because there are so many lying around and our MB manual trannies are all but non-existent.

Please let me know what you all think. I think it would be good to gather info on a w210 tranny swap in this thread too because the other threads are pretty scant on information about how to do this if possible.

Thanks- John

Yes, I did lots of travel in Western Europe from mid 2000 through 2003. I drove several manual transmission MB rent cars and rode in a bunch of Taxi's. I rarely got in taxi that was not an MB and never got in a taxi that wasn't a manual transmission.

Just walking through parking lots anywhere in Germany in particular, you RARELY saw an MB of any model that did not have a manual transmission. I think I left a big puddle of drool on every one of them that I walked by.

JB3 · #9 08-19-2010, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjts1

We're talking about manuals, not automatic. There is nothing to control the manual except your left foot and right hand. Any of the above listed will bolt up.

yeah, but I think he's saying that the absence of the automatic tranny in the car built with the automatic tranny will create a hole in the interwoven ECU system on the recipient car.

In other words, the manual tranny will certainly work, but there might be some issues with MIL lights, or even perhaps some drivability issues if the ECM is looking for calculation data from a tranny that is no longer there.

Lets say hypothetically the ECM was doing something with throttle position based on transmission output shaft RPM compared to crank RPM. If it lost the second part of that equation from the transmission, it might go into some kind of limp mode for pedal control on the assumption that the output shaft was not turning or something to protect the engine or transmission based on its original programming. Who knows

It would be something to keep in the back of the mind in case there were later issues

Probably just be a matter of figuring out how to fool the TCM maybe? or finding out what european manual versions do for the same situation. It would be interesting to see what if any problems would take place.

tjts1 · #10 08-19-2010, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dropnosky

yeah, but I think he's saying that the absence of the automatic tranny in the car built with the automatic tranny will create a hole in the interwoven ECU system on the recipient car.

In other words, the manual tranny will certainly work, but there might be some issues with MIL lights, or even perhaps some drivability issues if the ECM is looking for calculation data from a tranny that is no longer there.

These engines still had mechanical fuel injection. At worse it'll trigger a CEL. If the owner can handle a transmission conversion, they can certainly deal with a bulb in the dash.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgtNtHWSOc4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwIQ1UIuh6k

JB3 · #11 08-19-2010, 02:19 PM

in that case, it will be a cinch.

satyr · #12 08-20-2010, 02:21 AM

Thanks for the input everyone! Maybe a solution to the ECU issue is to source a used one from germany for such a swap? With as many of these manual tranny E200s in the EU, I'm shocked that MB didn't bother to bring any over to the US, and I'd be surprised if it was a major ordeal for such a transmission upgrade. Not knocking the automatic crowd- but having driven the 190d with 4spd for 5 years, I just can't imagine myself driving this car, or a w210 diesel with an autobox....

lupin..the..3rd · #13 05-16-2012, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by satyr

Thanks for the input everyone! Maybe a solution to the ECU issue is to source a used one from germany for such a swap? With as many of these manual tranny E200s in the EU, I'm shocked that MB didn't bother to bring any over to the US, and I'd be surprised if it was a major ordeal for such a transmission upgrade. Not knocking the automatic crowd- but having driven the 190d with 4spd for 5 years, I just can't imagine myself driving this car, or a w210 diesel with an autobox....

Any new news?
I'd like to swap my '97 e300 to a manual gearbox, but I'm not comfortable being the parts-pioneer and trying to find what works. I'd love to see a comprehensive "buy this stuff" list to achieve this conversion. Even if it was $5k in parts, I'd go for it.

benzguy300 · #14 05-20-2012, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lupin..the..3rd

Any new news?
I'd like to swap my '97 e300 to a manual gearbox, but I'm not comfortable being the parts-pioneer and trying to find what works. I'd love to see a comprehensive "buy this stuff" list to achieve this conversion. Even if it was $5k in parts, I'd go for it.

Klaus kalas is Peach parts member he did a conversion in a 97 E300D like yours he used parts from a 190 look for his posts

hanno · #15 05-20-2012, 06:42 PM

Do a search. Its an easy conversion, all R&R, no fabrication, no welding. Just swapping factory parts. If there are electronics on a 97 trans, unplug them and see what happens. That's electronics, not electrical (NSS, back up light switch).