Experiences changing filter/fluid on hi mileage life time fill tranny
 

Know it is not MB but let me throw something out there. I've got a 03 BMW 530i in the shop with Service Engine Soon light - slipping transmission code. The car has 159k miles on it and the transmission has never been serviced. I'm concerned that a filter/fluid change will kill it in short order. On top of this there is a service advisory out on the torque converter regarding a worn seal inside the TC. Car runs and drives out good.

Any thoughts/comments in regards to which way to go with it?

without knowing which code, i'd bet it needs a trans. the speed sensors rarely fail but the lifetime fluid does. if it was dexron, i'd say change it and cross your fingers, but the shell fluid change might pay for part of the replacement. good luck, chuck.

Thanks

I've recommended to the owner to run it till failure. I'm thinking it will get a lot worse before it totally fails.

Excuse my ignorance here, but I'm curious why a fluid & filter change would kill this transmission. Not arguing, I'm just sure there's some fuzzy logic at play that I don't quite understand so enlighten me.

I've heard all sorts of reasons. One being that due to transmission abuse, premature failure of fluid causes the friction material to break down. But by this point the fluid is shot and has little detergent ability left. So while the damage is done, the fluid is too. Adding new fluid with working detergent may remove any remaining friction material from the now damaged bands, etc.

I dont know if thats true, but I know of two cases were a transmission fluid changes results in complete failure. Its odd.

More along the lines that the fluid is very thick and fresh fluid, now being very thin will make clutches and bands not "grab" as easy.

Same reason why on our 722.3's and .4's, when the reverse is going out, changing the fluid finishes it off since the only reason it was engaging before was thick fluid helping it.

Due to shearing effects, trans oil actually gets thinner. If its gets thicker, it would have to be some pretty old/high milage stuff!

I've witnessed one.

I've advised him to plan on running till failure which I suspect will happen between now and 200k miles.

Heard tell of another BMW lifetime fill tranny with issues
 

Over 150k miles and nothing has ever been done. Seems to take a while to "engage" just sometimes. I let the owners know that there is a pretty good chance the tranny will die within a couple months if he changes the fluid so they are running em till failure. I'll let ya'll know how far along they get. I did find a place in ATL that installs rebuilts for ~$1500 with a year warranty. Problem is you go in and put a rebuilt torque coverter (~$300) in and new fluid you've still got an automatic with a lot of miles. I'm figuring a well maintenanced automatic will go for 250k miles without a lot of issues.

I think lifetime fill automatic transmissions are one of the most stupid ideas I've ever heard of.

The lifetime fill was done for owners to dump their cars every 3 or 5 years - right about 100K miles, pretty stupid .. yes for us - for the bean counters - NO.

VWs had the same transmission issues with their transmissions as well. The "lifetime fluid" was often never changed out by owners since there was no mention of it in the service schedule. If the owner did change it there was a good chance they would put in the wrong fluid instead of the correct Pentosin which was priced at over $10/ quart. Either way the transmission would die sooner or later. I knew someone who had a 2002 Jetta that was on its third tranny by 150k. This was definitely a problem that was not isolated to one make. A factory rebuilt unit was the best choice since rebuilding by independent shops resulted in mediocre results.

No such thing as life time fluid, even BMW suggests lifetime as 100K.

They suggest condition based service on their transmissions.

The lifetime of the trans would double OR triple with every 30K services!
And few manufactures want that! they all make $$$$ on replacement part sales!

I think you are going to see a bunch of nice BMW's and MB's needing rebuilt transmissions. What a shame.

Many VW dealers are claiming the DSG wet clutch oil is "filled for life" too... even though the service manual says it needs done every 40k :rolleyes:

-J

Those ZF 5HP19 on that 530i on that are robust transmissions that will last few hundred thousand miles.

Don't let them drive with a P0741 code - Slipping torque converter. What happens is the torque converter will not lock up and the slippage will cause a over heating of the transmission fluid. This will in turn cook the transmission.

The fix is not a fluid change, but to change out the torque converter with an updated unit. Best to get a new torque converter from the dealer, most rebuilts are hit and miss. Although some people reported to have good luck with Eriksson Rebuilts or 517Trans rebuilts.

Changing the torque converter is cheaper then getting a whole new trans.

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Oh by the way... My opinion is those ZF transmissions should have their fluid changed out not more then 40,000 miles with good expensive Pentosin ATF1.



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I've reviewed the service advisory concerning the torque converter slippage and discussed it with the owner. Unfortunately, he has been running it with the warning on for a year already. You can't tell there are issues while driving the car. My concern is that the damage is already done and if it gets a tc and new fluid it will be short lived.

Well if it's been that long. Then it's a judgement call.
New ZF transmissions are expensive. Probably around $2,000.00 plus. They will come with a new torque converter and filled with fluid. Or you can go the rebuilt route from a ZF authorized place like Peter Schmidt Transmission or Ericksson but probably will still need to buy the expensive fluid because they will most likely come in dry.

Or gamble and just replace the torque converter. But the labor will be the same as just as replacing with a new trans.
If you can't tell and seems to be running fine, then I'd probably gamble if I was doing the work myself.




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Out here you can practically double that figure for a rebuild from BMW.

I feel it will be a crapshoot too and have let the owner know.

The ZF trans from the BMW dealer will probably come either as a rebuilt unit from ZF or new if there are no cores to rebuild at the time. I'm estimating it will not be more than $2,500.00. Of course I could be wrong.

Best to call to find out.

On the other hand, some folks got their torque converters from Ericksson for under $400.00




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Rebuilt transmission $3773.11 quoted from the dealer today:eek:. Not sure if that included the tc.

That's not much more than an 01M from VW.

-J

That should come with a TC and fully loaded with fluid.

OK I was way off. I read posts that people with BMWs were getting their ZF trans installed for a bit lower than that price at the dealer. Wow how inflation flies.



The VW ZF built 01V can be had at the dealership for $2800.00




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I have two experiences changing overused transmission fluid for others.

- One was an 01 SLK320 (5-spd?) with 80K. First change? The fluid that came out wasn't all that bad and the pan wasn't loaded with silt. It was bought used at 30K and maybe the first owner had it changed at the dealer during one of the services.

- The other was a 98 ML320 with 115K. First change. The fluid came out inky black, but again, the pan wasn't loaded with too much silt.

Some new Ford & Lincoln do not suggest a fluid change and some suggest 100k to 150k fluid change. I always recommend transmission fluid flushes every 30k miles or 2 years. Fluid goes bad even synthetic types of fluid.