Know it is not MB but let me throw something out there. I've got a 03 BMW 530i in the shop with Service Engine Soon light - slipping transmission code. The car has 159k miles on it and the transmission has never been serviced. I'm concerned that a filter/fluid change will kill it in short order. On top of this there is a service advisory out on the torque converter regarding a worn seal inside the TC. Car runs and drives out good.

Any thoughts/comments in regards to which way to go with it?

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Jim

without knowing which code, i'd bet it needs a trans. the speed sensors rarely fail but the lifetime fluid does. if it was dexron, i'd say change it and cross your fingers, but the shell fluid change might pay for part of the replacement. good luck, chuck.

Thanks

I've recommended to the owner to run it till failure. I'm thinking it will get a lot worse before it totally fails.

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Jim

Excuse my ignorance here, but I'm curious why a fluid & filter change would kill this transmission. Not arguing, I'm just sure there's some fuzzy logic at play that I don't quite understand so enlighten me.

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'02 BMW 325i
'85 300D 450k
'93 190E 2.6 170k(killed by tree)
'08 Ducati Hypermotard 1100S 6k
'06 Ducati S2R800 14k(sold)

I've heard all sorts of reasons. One being that due to transmission abuse, premature failure of fluid causes the friction material to break down. But by this point the fluid is shot and has little detergent ability left. So while the damage is done, the fluid is too. Adding new fluid with working detergent may remove any remaining friction material from the now damaged bands, etc.

I dont know if thats true, but I know of two cases were a transmission fluid changes results in complete failure. Its odd.

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1991 560 SEL / 185k miles
1992 750il / 17k miles - project car

More along the lines that the fluid is very thick and fresh fluid, now being very thin will make clutches and bands not "grab" as easy.

Same reason why on our 722.3's and .4's, when the reverse is going out, changing the fluid finishes it off since the only reason it was engaging before was thick fluid helping it.

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2016 Monsoon Gray Audi Allroad - 21k
2008 Black Mercedes E350 4Matic Sport - 131k
2014 Jeep Wranger Unlimited Sahara - 62k
2003 Gray Mercedes ML350 - 122k

Due to shearing effects, trans oil actually gets thinner. If its gets thicker, it would have to be some pretty old/high milage stuff!

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1991 560 SEL / 185k miles
1992 750il / 17k miles - project car

I've witnessed one.

I've advised him to plan on running till failure which I suspect will happen between now and 200k miles.

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Jim

Over 150k miles and nothing has ever been done. Seems to take a while to "engage" just sometimes. I let the owners know that there is a pretty good chance the tranny will die within a couple months if he changes the fluid so they are running em till failure. I'll let ya'll know how far along they get. I did find a place in ATL that installs rebuilts for ~$1500 with a year warranty. Problem is you go in and put a rebuilt torque coverter (~$300) in and new fluid you've still got an automatic with a lot of miles. I'm figuring a well maintenanced automatic will go for 250k miles without a lot of issues.

I think lifetime fill automatic transmissions are one of the most stupid ideas I've ever heard of.

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Jim

The lifetime fill was done for owners to dump their cars every 3 or 5 years - right about 100K miles, pretty stupid .. yes for us - for the bean counters - NO.

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2012 BMW X5 (Beef + Granite suspension model)

1995 E300D - The original humming machine (consumed by Flood 2017)
2000 E320 - The evolution (consumed by flood 2017)

VWs had the same transmission issues with their transmissions as well. The "lifetime fluid" was often never changed out by owners since there was no mention of it in the service schedule. If the owner did change it there was a good chance they would put in the wrong fluid instead of the correct Pentosin which was priced at over $10/ quart. Either way the transmission would die sooner or later. I knew someone who had a 2002 Jetta that was on its third tranny by 150k. This was definitely a problem that was not isolated to one make. A factory rebuilt unit was the best choice since rebuilding by independent shops resulted in mediocre results.

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1989 300CE

No such thing as life time fluid, even BMW suggests lifetime as 100K.

They suggest condition based service on their transmissions.

The lifetime of the trans would double OR triple with every 30K services!
And few manufactures want that! they all make $$$$ on replacement part sales!

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MERCEDES Benz Master Guild Technician (6 TIMES)
ASE Master Technician
Mercedes Benz Star Technician (2 times)
44 years foreign automotive repair
27 Years M.B. Shop foreman (dealer)
MB technical information Specialist (15 years)
190E 2.3 16V ITS SCCA race car (sold)
1986 190E 2.3 16V 2.5 (sold)
Retired Moderator

I think you are going to see a bunch of nice BMW's and MB's needing rebuilt transmissions. What a shame.

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Jim

Many VW dealers are claiming the DSG wet clutch oil is "filled for life" too... even though the service manual says it needs done every 40k

-J

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1991 350SDL. 230,000 miles (new motor @ 150,000). Blown head gasket

Tesla Model 3. 205,000 miles. Been to 48 states!
Past: A fleet of VW TDIs.... including a V10,a Dieselgate Passat, and 2 ECOdiesels.
2014 Cadillac ELR
2013 Fiat 500E.

Those ZF 5HP19 on that 530i on that are robust transmissions that will last few hundred thousand miles.

Don't let them drive with a P0741 code - Slipping torque converter. What happens is the torque converter will not lock up and the slippage will cause a over heating of the transmission fluid. This will in turn cook the transmission.

The fix is not a fluid change, but to change out the torque converter with an updated unit. Best to get a new torque converter from the dealer, most rebuilts are hit and miss. Although some people reported to have good luck with Eriksson Rebuilts or 517Trans rebuilts.

Changing the torque converter is cheaper then getting a whole new trans.

.

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1983 123.133 California
- GreaseCar Veg System