VIN Tag - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

whunter · #16 12-12-2013, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixto

Pelican has 115 584 09 02 for $21.75.

If the VIN block of your old tag is intact, stick it over a new tag and attach the new tag to the pillar. Is it held on by rivets as on an early W124?

In my case, I lost an A-pillar trim piece clip so the VIN tag is holding the trim piece in place

OT - it amazes me that on American trucks VIN relevant info is tacked to the door rather than the door jamb.

Sixto
87 300D

That is a reference to an intentional MB database error.

If you call any dealer parts department (with competent people), they will dig through three layers of availability search, then say:
Part no longer available and can not be supplied.

The part number is valid, but all stock was destroyed at end of production.
By leaving the number live, it gives them the option of "at a theoretical future date" making more authentic VIN# plates for people on this list:

Carlos Slim Helu & family
Bill Gates
Amancio Ortega
Warren Buffett
Larry Ellison
Charles Koch
David Koch
Li Ka-shing
Liliane Bettencourt & family
Bernard Arnault & family
Christy Walton & family
Stefan Persson
Michael Bloomberg
Jim Walton
Sheldon Adelson
Alice Walton
S. Robson Walton
Karl Albrecht
Jeff Bezos
Larry Page
Sergey Brin
Mukesh Ambani
Michele Ferrero & family
Lee Shau Kee
David Thomson & family
Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal Alsaud
Carl Icahn
Thomas & Raymond Kwok & family
Dieter Schwarz
George Soros
Theo Albrecht, Jr. & family
Alberto Bailleres Gonzalez & family
Jorge Paulo Lemann
Alisher Usmanov
Iris Fontbona & family
Forrest Mars, Jr.
Jacqueline Mars
John Mars
Georgina Rinehart
German Larrea Mota Velasco & family
Mikhail Fridman
Lakshmi Mittal
Aliko Dangote
Len Blavatnik
Cheng Yu-tung
Joseph Safra
Rinat Akhmetov
Leonid Mikhelson
Leonardo Del Vecchio
Michael Dell
Steve Ballmer
Viktor Vekselberg
Paul Allen
Francois Pinault & family
Vagit Alekperov
Phil Knight
Andrey Melnichenko
Dhanin Chearavanont & family
Susanne Klatten
Vladimir Potanin
Michael Otto & family
Vladimir Lisin
Gennady Timchenko
Luis Carlos Sarmiento
Mohammed Al Amoudi
Tadashi Yanai & family
Mark Zuckerberg
Henry Sy & family
Donald Bren
Serge Dassault & family
Lee Kun-Hee
Mikhail Prokhorov
Alexey Mordashov
Antonio Ermirio de Moraes & family
Abigail Johnson
Ray Dalio
Robert Kuok
Miuccia Prada
Ronald Perelman
Anne Cox Chambers
Stefan Quandt
Ananda Krishnan
Alejandro Santo Domingo Davila
James Simons
Charoen Sirivadhanabhakdi
Zong Qinghou
Dirce Navarro De Camargo & family
John Fredriksen
Gerald Cavendish Grosvenor & family
Harold Hamm
Rupert Murdoch & family
John Paulson
Azim Premji
Ernesto Bertarelli & family
Charlene de Carvalho-Heineken
Hans Rausing
Jack Taylor & family
Lui Che Woo
Laurene Powell Jobs & family
Eike Batista

Don't hold your breath waiting for your name to be added.

.

whunter · #17 12-12-2013, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWhitmore

I will try the part number with Pelican and the classic center. My biggest issue is finding someone to stamp the new blank tag in the proper size and shape numbers/letters. The comment made by one forum member about law enforcement is unfortunate. It would have been great if that person would have asked a question or two before implying that a law was being broken.

I try to warn owners about pitfalls BEFORE damage or any aspect of law or enforcement becomes involved.

Here are some examples:

Federal Odometer Tampering Statutes
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/general-information/170341-federal-odometer-tampering-statutes.html#post3182432

Altering or removing motor vehicle identification numbers
Altering or removing motor vehicle identification numbers - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

**********************************************

IMO everyone should be made aware of the potential risk/danger of dealing with VIN# tags.

United States law on this topic is incredibly complex, easily violated, and has draconian penalties.

US CODE: Title 18511. Altering or removing motor vehicle ...

TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 25 > § 511. Altering or removing motor vehicle identification numbers

Good fortune and best wishes.

.

BWhitmore · #18 12-12-2013, 05:47 PM

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. After having been engaged in the legal profession for several decades I have always found many advantages from asking questions before drawing conclusions.

Skippy · #19 12-15-2013, 10:32 PM

Quote:

USC › Title 18 › Part I › Chapter 25 › § 511 ›

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next

18 USC § 511 - Altering or removing motor vehicle identification numbers

US Code
Notes
Updates

Current through Pub. L. 113-36. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)
(a) A person who—
(1) knowingly removes, obliterates, tampers with, or alters an identification number for a motor vehicle or motor vehicle part; or
(2) with intent to further the theft of a motor vehicle, knowingly removes, obliterates, tampers with, or alters a decal or device affixed to a motor vehicle pursuant to the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act,
shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
(b)
(1) Subsection (a) of this section does not apply to a removal, obliteration, tampering, or alteration by a person specified in paragraph (2) of this subsection (unless such person knows that the vehicle or part involved is stolen).
(2) The persons referred to in paragraph (1) of this subsection are—
(A) a motor vehicle scrap processor or a motor vehicle demolisher who complies with applicable State law with respect to such vehicle or part;
(B) a person who repairs such vehicle or part, if the removal, obliteration, tampering, or alteration is reasonably necessary for the repair;
(C) a person who restores or replaces an identification number for such vehicle or part in accordance with applicable State law; and
(D) a person who removes, obliterates, tampers with, or alters a decal or device affixed to a motor vehicle pursuant to the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act, if that person is the owner of the motor vehicle, or is authorized to remove, obliterate, tamper with or alter the decal or device by—
(i) the owner or his authorized agent;
(ii) applicable State or local law; or
(iii) regulations promulgated by the Attorney General to implement the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act.

I'm not seeing a felony here. Provided the OP follows any applicable state laws, what he's trying to do is specifically legal according to this section of USC.

I would think any good engraving shop should be able to do the work if they can see an example of what's desired. I'd be prepared to show them proof of ownership along with copies of applicable state and federal law.

BWhitmore · #20 12-15-2013, 11:50 PM

As the owner of other restored classic vehicles it was necessary to REPLACE the data or VIN tag on one of these other vehicles. At that time, the California DMV approved the replacement of the tag with no problem as I was able to provide proof of ownership. The car in question, a 1982 300CD has two VIN tags, the one on the A pillar and the one on the door post. It is fairly common for the A pillar tag to break off when the A pillar cover is removed ( necessary when the radio speaker or the dash is removed). As explained to the moderator, had he simply asked a few questions he probably would not have jumped to the conclusion that a law was being broken.

Thanks for your reply and clarification on this issue.

whunter · #21 12-15-2013, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skippy

I'm not seeing a felony here. Provided the OP follows any applicable state laws, what he's trying to do is specifically legal according to this section of USC.

I would think any good engraving shop should be able to do the work if they can see an example of what's desired. I'd be prepared to show them proof of ownership along with copies of applicable state and federal law.

It depends upon who is viewing, and what their interpretation is.
There are hundreds of pages with further at times contradictory law on this topic, just on the US government level.

Sorry, these tags are not engraved.
A special font stamp set was used, it is distinct to MB.

Selling across state or national boundaries can (if noticed due to a less than perfect duplication), become a legal nightmare.

In the early 1970's, a car collector friend tried to drive one of his vehicles to an event in Canada.
The Canada border guard looked at his VIN# tag and pulled him for further investigation.
He was detained 24 hours, then allowed to leave, without the car.
Previous owner made a less than perfect duplicate VIN# tag, and forgot to mention or give him the original.
The car was returned after rotting outside during two years of legal battle.

Car show judges have also been known to catch less than perfect duplication, and reduce points.

.

Skippy · #22 12-16-2013, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whunter

It depends upon who is viewing, and what their interpretation is.
There are hundreds of pages with further at times contradictory law on this topic, just on the US government level.

Got links?

Quote:

Sorry, these tags are not engraved.
A special font stamp set was used, it is distinct to MB.

Good to know. I would look at my A-pillar tag, but it's not there. I think it was missing when I bought the car.

Quote:

Selling across state or national boundaries can (if noticed due to a less than perfect duplication), become a legal nightmare.

I agree that could be problematic. However, W123s have the VIN in multiple places. If they all match each other and the paperwork, then everything should be ok with the authorities, but I could understand how it could make a prospective buyer nervous.

Quote:

In the early 1970's, a car collector friend tried to drive one of his vehicles to an event in Canada.
The Canada border guard looked at his VIN# tag and pulled him for further investigation.
He was detained 24 hours, then allowed to leave, without the car.
Previous owner made a less than perfect duplicate VIN# tag, and forgot to mention or give him the original.
The car was returned after rotting outside during two years of legal battle.

How many VIN plates did that particular car have, and did they match each other and the paperwork?

Quote:

Car show judges have also been known to catch less than perfect duplication, and reduce points.

.

As well they should. I wonder how the points off compare between a damaged original like the OP has, a completely missing one like I have, or a good but not perfect reproduction.

BWhitmore · #23 12-16-2013, 10:01 AM

The VIN tags on my 300CD all match and match the title. The current A pillar tag is glued in place and does not match the quality of the rest of the car. The blank tag I had made by a trophy shop is an exact duplicate of the original without the stamped letters. I may have a line on a gentleman with the MBZ Club of America who is able to stamp the blank tag with the original font and size of type.

whunter · #24 12-16-2013, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skippy

Quote:

Originally Posted by whunter

It depends upon who is viewing, and what their interpretation is.
There are hundreds of pages with further at times contradictory law on this topic, just on the US government level.

Got links?

Quote:

Sorry, these tags are not engraved.
A special font stamp set was used, it is distinct to MB.

Good to know. I would look at my A-pillar tag, but it's not there. I think it was missing when I bought the car.

Quote:

Selling across state or national boundaries can (if noticed due to a less than perfect duplication), become a legal nightmare.

I agree that could be problematic. However, W123s have the VIN in multiple places. If they all match each other and the paperwork, then everything should be ok with the authorities, but I could understand how it could make a prospective buyer nervous.

Quote:

In the early 1970's, a car collector friend tried to drive one of his vehicles to an event in Canada.
The Canada border guard looked at his VIN# tag and pulled him for further investigation.
He was detained 24 hours, then allowed to leave, without the car.
Previous owner made a less than perfect duplicate VIN# tag, and forgot to mention or give him the original.
The car was returned after rotting outside during two years of legal battle.

How many VIN plates did that particular car have, and did they match each other and the paperwork?

Quote:

Car show judges have also been known to catch less than perfect duplication, and reduce points.

.

As well they should. I wonder how the points off compare between a damaged original like the OP has, a completely missing one like I have, or a good but not perfect reproduction.

Bump this thread after January first, and I will try to answer more on the topic.

.