Hi all, just a quick introduction on myself, I am in the military and will be moving to Stuttgart Germany in 2020. Since I will be in the heart and home of Mercedes, I am considering getting a classic Mercedes to use as a three season car. I want to be able to carry the whole family (3 kids) plus stuff, so I am after a wagon. To be able to import it back to the states, it has to be more than 25 years old in the summer of 2023, so something registered before June 1998. Due to the emissions laws in Germany, if it is a diesel it has to be a classic "oldtimer" older than 30 years, so built before Aug 1990.

I can do basic car maintenance and I am good at following YouTube directions, so I should be fine doing most of the work myself. I plan to buy on the higher end so that I can drive it day one without having to deal with a lot of problems. Yes, there are always things to refresh, but I do not want to spend the first couple of months working on it to get it road worthy. My budget is around 20k Euro. I will be using this to cruise the autobahn at around 75-85 mph, so the smaller gas or diesel engines wont work.

Anyways, without going too much into the W123 vs W124 debate, are there any Euro spec engines or options that are worth hunting for or staying away from? I am tracking the lights, bumpers, and typically a few HP bump, but what else? Most of the info I find in English online focus on the US spec cars so any help would be appreciated.

Below is what I have been able to figure out so far based on my research:

W123 TD Turbo - very cool classic car, as the Germans would say, it is an "oldtimer". Good mpg but autobahn speeds might be a challenge

W124 TD Turbo - 1990 at the newest, great MPG, faster than W123, much better autobahn car. The Germans have a great term, "youngtimer," to describe a car like the W124 that is 20-30 years old but not yet old enough to be called a classic "oldtimer." I am guessing I should go for the M603 engine, correct?

W124 Petrol - There are a lot of cool options here line the Sportline option, and the later 24 valve engine. It is probably outside of my price range but what about a E36 3.6 AMG? Did they put the 4.2 V8s in Wagons? Are there any other cool Euro only gas engines worth going for?

I dont need a Euro spec car just for the sake of being different, but if there is something that was only sold in Germany and it is worth hunting down, then I would like to know what you can tell me.

Thank you for your help!

Don't overlook a nice 123 wagon. They are much simpler to maintain then the ones following. Once set up correctly they will run for decades with minimal maintenance. Personally I'd go for a five speed five cylinder with or without a turbo it can run 80 on the highway with a top end around 100 mph.

The gas powered cars are very nice too and very very rugged but use lots of fuel.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Thank you for the great info!

I had another thought, looking at some of the German used car websites I see that there is a gas / petrol w123 with 185 hp. It doesn't seem like this engine was sold in the states, can anyone tell me about it? Would it be a good option for me?

I had one of those. It was very powerful and torque from zero to top speed. Smooth and bulletproof as well. Not economical though, maybe about 20 to 22 mpg with the five speed od transmission highway.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Having owned and driven an 85 300TD OM617, a 300E 3.2 M104 and a 91 300TE M103, I'd be happiest with a 93-97 wagon with an M104, ABS and airbags.

The M104 was far more powerful and economical than the other motors until losing a head gasket at 360K miles. IIRC the 96-97 wagons (not sure of the W designation) also have an improved transmission. 123 wagons are getting a little tough to get wagon specific parts for but they are increasing in value. The M103 is still going at 312K miles but isn't close to the M104 in performance.

Unfortunately I don't know about the availability of euro models, so I cannot answer your exact question. Will follow the thread to learn what euro options exist.

Good luck and thank you for your service, it is appreciated.

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"Rudeness is a weak man's imitation of strength" - Eric Hoffer

Gas vs Diesel is not as straight up a question as it normally would be.* I can get gas on base but to get diesel I have to get it off base, meaning I have to make a special trip out of my way.* To avoid paying the roughly 50% tax on fuel, I can only fill up at one brand of stations, Esso.* Additionally, I have to go inside the station to pay, no paying at the pump to get 50% off.* So diesel is cheaper to buy and better MPG, but is much more inconvenient tipping the argument towards gas for a DD.

However, I only get cheap prices at the Esso stations in Germany.* So to save money when I am traveling outside of Germany, for example Switzerland, I have to get off the autobahn and drive into a small boarder town about 10 miles out of the way for one last fill up of fuel.* Because diesel is cheaper, better MPG, and longer range, this tips the argument back towards diesel. Then again, when we do take long road trips outside of Germany, we will probably take my wife's Prius since it has great MPG and I consider it a disposable appliance that I dont mind putting on lots of miles on and letting it get dinged and dented up in those tight parking garages of Europe.* Also, coming from a Jeep with 12-13 MPG, 20-22 sounds fairly good! And of course because of the way the US decides to use MPG, the difference going from 12 MPG to 20 MPG is far greater than going from 20 MPG to the Prius' 45 MPG, let alone the diesel's 25-30 MPG.

I guess in the end, while diesel gets better range and better MPG, the difference along with significant DD inconvenience probably isnt worth it. Most likely I will end up with the best example that is close by rather than focusing on gas vs diesel.

One thing I have not seem mentioned about W123 vs W124, what car has better rear seats? What car is wider and what car has more leg room? One scenario I see is my family comes to visit and we end up taking two cars rather than trying to rent a van, we put my parents, who are on the heavy side, in the back of the Wagon and my brother (who is 6 food 7 inches) ride in the front of the Wagon while my wife and kids ride in the Prius (because who wants to move the car seats). So, W123 vs W124 for a tall guy in the front seat and old heavy parents in the back seat?

And thank you for your support Sugar Bear!

123 v 124 room...they both have excellent legroom for the front passengers. It seems as though the cargo area aft of the rear seat (not the third seat) is a little bigger if at all on the 123 but not nearly enough to matter.

Yes to heavier passengers in the back but with a good Self Leveling Suspension (SLS) to lift the back when carrying loads.

I liked the 123 a lot and would enjoy a really nice one today but think my preference would be the 124 with dual airbags and ABS. Especially one with an M104 3.2L 24V.

Next decision point could be 4MATIC vs RWD only. I avoid 4MATICS of that era due to some problems they had and it is getting difficult to source front axle parts.

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"Rudeness is a weak man's imitation of strength" - Eric Hoffer

I did some basic math on the gas vs diesel. I compared the absolute worse case, the highest HP W123 gas engine at 20mpg vs the W124 turbo diesel at 35mpg. Diesel in Europe is generally much cheaper than gas adding to the disparity. These numbers are just very quick math by the way. The whopping increase of the gas over the diesel is a massive $575 per 10,000 miles. With how young our kids are, there is no way we are going to be taking the long road trips I used to take when I was single, so 10k miles per year is what I think my max driving would be. So, the difference is irreverent to my decision.

I have heard that the 4MATIC has a lot of problems for a car this old so I plan to avoid it. The Germans are extremely efficient at clearing the roads, true snow tires are required October to Easter, and I wont be living in the Alps, so I dont need AWD

Ultimately, the decision seems to come down to a cool classic car vs cool older car with modern safety like ABS and airbags.

An S123 280TE with five-speed manual transmission would be my first choice, if I could find one; second choice would be a Sportline S124 with M104 engine, but I think that would put you outside of your age limit, as I don't believe the M104 was fitted until '93.

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Robert Fini

'12 ML350 BlueTec, 87k
'06 E320CDI, 270k
'05 T1N Sprinter 2500/Pleasure-Way Plateau TS, 69k
'97 C36AMG, 313k (son's)
'94 E320T, 249k
'93 190E Sportline LE, 168k (daughter's)
'84 190E-2.3/5spd (Stage Rally Racer)
'66 230 W110 Sedan (Barn Find, Vintage Racer build in progress)

Rob,

That is kind of what I am thinking also. A '93 will work so long as it is gas instead of diesel.