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  #1  
Old 09-18-2022, 09:09 PM
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The ECM in the '88 is like this unit found in the link you provided.

Engine Control Unit KE-Jetronic 3.1 117. (967, 968) (third one down).

The '88 ECM is shorter than the ones shown. I'd have to go thru my bookmarks, but I have found references that the ICV is controlled by the ECM. It does not have a separate controller like the V8 engines.

I can't recall off the top of my head the part number, but the second ECM I picked up was the same as the original. I have been very careful to match all OE part numbers to the spare parts I buy.

I've also found that the CSI operates up to 60 deg before it cuts out on this engine. So I'll pull it tomorrow and make sure it delivers fuel.

Thx for the input.
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  #2  
Old 09-19-2022, 01:02 PM
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Here is what I would do.

Forget about the electronic control for now. Unplug the ECU.

I am assuming the ignition and fuel pressures and fuel volume are in spec.

Clean the ICV and disconnect the electrical plug. No false air past the throttle valve.

Unplug the O2 sensor. ( i would replace the O2 sensor you have been running extremely rich) Get your multi meter and read the DC volts on the control wire coming out of the O2 sensor to ECU. Mine is a green wire.

Get the car running and wait until the O2 heats up. As it heats up monitor the dc volts output from the O2 sensor.

The sweet spot is DC volts fluctuating between .0 and 1.0 DC volts. THIS IS THE RANGE THE ECU CAN WORK and ADJUST THE MIXTURE to lambda -adjust the 3 MM SCREW INTIL THE VOLTAGE IS THAT RANGE.

THIS IS LIMP HOME MODE. What we are doing is isolating the electric control from the mechanical system. If the car does not run right after making this mixture adjustment then you know you have mechanical issues.
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  #3  
Old 09-19-2022, 03:52 PM
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Thank you for your reply, The engine is hot right now and the rains are moving in. First thing in the morning I will check out the system with your suggestions. So the engine should run even with the ECU and ICV disconnected? What you're doing is using the O2 sensor to determine the optimum air/fuel mix? Makes perfect sense.

Got the new O2 sensor installed this morning. The OE unit was covered with soot. Using the original ECU and the engine cold, the engine would fire and then die. Repeated several times and was finally able to get it to run, but only by pumping the throttle until the RPMs got above 1K RPMs then I was able to limp it up to 6k and it ran a little rough, but it ran. Until I let the RPMs drop under 1K and the engine died.


So I dropped the sensor plate 1/8 turn. Some good. Dropped another 1/8 turn and again it started a little better but died again. So I nursed it again and was able to get some RPMs and get the engine up to speed. Ran the engine at 5-6K and got it up to 90deg C. Let off the gas, the engine hit 1K and died. I can not get a warm start.


The entire fuel system has been replaced. FD has been rebuilt. Everything went back together using only finger pressure, Nothing was forced. I have not done a detailed flow test of the FD, but fuel delivery was equal at each outlet. There is a 0.4 BAR difference between System and Control pressures.


When I researched the FD rebuild, it was noted that the FD Plunger Nut is set at 0.6mm, "to start." Per the Bosch KE-Jetronic manual. From what I get out of the manual, if the Plunger drops too far down, the Metering Edge of the plunger will shut the fuel off. At least with my limited knowledge, that seems what would happen. Could the Plunger Nut need to be moved up? It would seem like the Metering Edge of the FD Barrel and Plunger has to be as close together as possible. Foot off the gas and engine off, and the Plunger and Nut would shut off all fuel. The metering edge would shut down the fuel to the injectors and the seal of the Plunger Nut would seal the bottom of the Plunger. Any movement up, due to the Sensor Plate dropping, would open the fuel to allow the engine to run either thru the ICV or the Throttle. Does that make any sense?

Last edited by 3DawgDoug; 09-19-2022 at 04:21 PM.
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  #4  
Old 09-20-2022, 02:49 AM
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Did you disconnect the ECU while reading the O2 sensor output? We are mechanically setting the mixture. Yes the car will idle and run without the ECU control. This is a design feature of the KE Jetronic. You still could have hard cold starts and no WOT without ECU control. But thats not important yet, lets get you idling and running first.

Idle is controlled by (metered) air bypass.

Make the air flow sensor plate adjustment per Pierre. (KE Jetronic)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAhWj-JH9Rk

Make sure you have the o ring between the Fuel distributor and AFM.
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1993 2.6 Sportline 5 speed
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  #5  
Old 09-20-2022, 09:16 AM
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I will be checking the O2 output this morning.

Check on idle control. ICV is working. The plastic wire fittings are shot. There are no numbers of the ICV to indicate polarity, so it has been tried both ways. No change.

Plate adjusted per Pierre. But just because the plate is properly adjusted to the plunger, it does not indicate the Plunger is in proper relationship to the Metering Edge. When I started this project, this system was dumping fuel into the boot and into the crankcase. When I tore the FD down it looked like it had a new diaphragm. I honestly did not find a problem with the FD.

I'm going to pull the FD this morning and adjust the Plunger Nut up 1/6 turn at a time until I just get fuel leakage at the injector outlets. After I get fuel delivery, then back out the PN 1/6 of a turn to the last point before I got fuel delivery. My thinking is that the A/F ratio is built into the design. When you have the free play adjusted to the 1-3 mm range the A/F mix is set. But that does not set where the Metering Edge is and the start of fuel delivery.

Am I still making any sense?
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  #6  
Old 09-20-2022, 10:58 AM
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Here is how to set the plate height...

Your way may work too. The important thing is that the plunger cannot ride on the AFM wheel at rest. That will inject too much fuel to the injectors. I believe this is your problem. Item # 3 on the first page.

Did you replace the o ring on the bottom of the FD? This can make a difference on setting the plunger height to AFM wheel.

The o ring that seals the plunger body to the plunger barrel must be in the proper orientation or it will leak.

PS- I bought a rebuild kit on ebay from CIS???, and I did like the plunger o ring- it was different than the original, so I never installed the rebuilt FD.
Attached Thumbnails
Fuel distributor rebuild question.-img_5681.jpg   Fuel distributor rebuild question.-img_5682.jpg   Fuel distributor rebuild question.-img_5683.jpg  
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1993 2.6 Sportline 5 speed
1992 2.3 Canadian delivery
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  #7  
Old 09-20-2022, 11:24 AM
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That's the way I set it. That's why I'm scratching my head. No matter where I set the SP, I lose fuel at the same RPMs every time. But if the plunger is dropping below the metering edge of the plunger/barrel, the only way you get a start is by adjusting the SP HIGH so the metering edge remains open at idle.

I've tried everything else I can find to try.
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  #8  
Old 09-20-2022, 12:29 PM
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This is pointing to a FD problem. I would flow test the injectors and check the FD isn't leaking at the plunger after doing a smoke test.

"no matter where I set the SP, I lose fuel at the same RPMs every time." Can you better explain this statement?

Are you running rich or lean? If you have a large air leak you won't get the car to idle and it will be very hard to start. If this condition exists, you can increase the mixture and the car will start and idle high. But then when you start leaning out the mixture to bring down the idle it will stall.

Did you ever do a smoke test? There is no guessing or short cuts with this test.

Dave K
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  #9  
Old 09-21-2022, 09:10 PM
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"losing fuel" is my impression of how the failure happens. The engine will run, with a lot of effort. I can pick up a slight misfire as it runs. As I drop the RPMs, they drop to 1K and the engine just dies.

I will have to look up the smoke test to run that, so no, I have not done the smoke test.

The dashboard vacuum gauge pegs all the way left when I crank the engine over and moves into the red as RPMs increase.

So I would drop the SP and add more air to the mix. I.E. turn the screw left? Just how fine of adjustment is needed. I did get some improvement by adding a little more air, 1/8 turn at a time. Just how touchy is the adjustment?
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  #10  
Old 09-22-2022, 02:50 AM
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Once you get it running you should be able to keep it running by reading the O2 sensor voltage and make the appropriate adjustments-.1 to 1.0 volts DC. Did you try this? If you can't do this to get it to idle then, either the FD is bad or you have a unmetered air leak or both.

Also, did you ever test your potentiometer ?
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  #11  
Old 09-22-2022, 05:47 PM
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I was getting ready to have it towed to a shop, and Pierre posted this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xceo4OYJVOE&t=34

That was the issue. I took my salvaged EHA and just installed it. Didn't check a thing, just put it in. Turned the ignition on and off twice, to prime the system so to speak. Then I cranked the engine, and off she went! Idle is a little iffy, but close enough to be able to fine-turn.

Now I can go pass out for a couple of days. I haven't been sleeping well lately.

Thank each and everyone for your comments and for sharing your knowledge.
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  #12  
Old 09-22-2022, 07:47 PM
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Glad you solved the issue.

So the EHA was bad?
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  #13  
Old 09-23-2022, 01:33 AM
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Yes, the EHA is bad. Looking at it closely, I get a feeling it was a salvaged item. It shows more wear than the other plastic components in the engine compartment. It's a 34-year-old car, so that is to be expected. I'm trying to buy new, but some things are not available new. Now that I know everything working, I'll pull the FD back off and recheck the PN is at 0.6mm. Put it back in, check the DP to 0.4 bar, and adjust the sensor plate for proper height. Pierre talks about using a vacuum gauge to set that. I think I can put a "T" in the vacuum line from the back corner of the manifold to the instrument cluster and get a good reading there. The EHA that's working I picked up on an extra FD I bought.

Thanks again for your input.
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  #14  
Old 09-26-2022, 07:49 PM
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Got the engine to start and idle in "limp" mode. I disabled the ICV, no ECM, no feedback pot. Just the FP relay and the A/C plug-in relays. Adjusted the A/F ratio with the 3mm tower screw. At first, I dropped the sensor plate. Slight improvement, but as I continued with the adjustments run got worse. Reset the tower screw to where I began. Backed the plate adjustment 1/8 turn. Ran a little better. Kept backing out 1/8 turn and restart the engine. Finally got about a 900 RPM idle.

The engine runs smoothly and even. Let the engine reach full operating temperature and I get a good hot start. What I'm finding, is that I can adjust the A/F some more, and the RPMs will continue to increase.

I did find another video inline discussing the proper resting point of the sensor plate. There is a steel pin that sets the high point of the plate at rest. The pin was set so that the bottom plane of the SP is dead even with the bottom edge of the air inlet. The SP on the unit I have in hand sets even with the line of the inlet funnel and the throat where the inlet diameter matches the SP.

I believe that adjustment is what Dave Kost was leading me to.

Now, the video I found was for a v8 engine. So, are the SP settings the same between the 6s and the v8?
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  #15  
Old 09-27-2022, 12:33 AM
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OK, now that I have all of the "maintenance" items replaced and the fuel system set, I do believe this height adjustment of the SP is the root cause of the issue.

The SP sets at bottom of the straight part of the inlet funnel. When I had the engine in 'limp home' mode and running, raising the SP kept increasing the RPMs. At one point, the RPMs jumped to 5K and I had to kill the ignition to get the engine under control.

How do I move the SP up to the correct position? Will adjusting the 3mm screw in the adjustment tower raise the SP?

What do I do about the runaway RPMs as I get closer to the proper A/F ratio? Will that be correct when all of the engine controls are added back into the mix?

Should I adjust the stop pin for the SP height before I do anything else?

I have reset the Plunger Stop at 0.6 mm. The EHA is set at 0.4 bar DP, unplugged. Where the SP sets is where it was when I got the car.

Last edited by 3DawgDoug; 09-27-2022 at 12:43 AM.
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