A/C repair at non-Mercedes dealer OK? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

vicki · #1 08-14-2002, 10:38 PM

We took my "new" 1990 500SL to a Mercedes dealer for a checkup to see if anything significant is wrong with it and if so, to get estimates to fix. We were pleasantly surprised in that there were no major problems. There is a small problem with the convertible top, and we told them to go ahead and fix.

However, my husband and I are disagreeing on one of the other recommended fixes. The old A/C (R12?) isn't blowing cold air and needs to be converted to a new system (R34?). This makes sense to me, but the dealer will charge about $450. Again, I was OK with this, but my husband called an auto repair shop that specializes in "luxury imports" and they will charge $225. I'm not so sure I want my new baby in anyone's hands other than a Mercedes expert...but my husband says I'm being ridiculous at a cost to the family of $225.

Any advice?

Thanks!
Vicki

Piotr · #2 08-14-2002, 11:55 PM

I had everything done (what tkamyia listed) in a local garage for $119. Mercedes dealer charges $91/hour, vs $51 in a non-MB garage. An independent MB garage wanted $1200 to replace compressor plus $500 to convert. At the non-MB everything cost $700. HOWEVER- you really need mechs who actually know something about MBs, or you may have trouble.

And now for something completely different- Canadians came up with a refrigerant (I think it's called duracool) completely compatible with R-12 (no conversions) and completely safe environmentally (UNlike R-134). Apparently it's very popular in Australia (I called the company and confirmed it). It is not widely available in the US because EPA ruled (I love this) that cars using this refrigerant still need conversion. No reason given (EPA did not dispute any claims of compatibility). I guess it would be an unfair competition for DuPont...

#3 08-15-2002, 06:41 AM

I see two issues here to which I would like to offer comment:

Just because the dealer is the "authorized" service facility does NOT mean that they are the best. There are some excellent independent shops that are better than the dealers. Just because you pay more does not always guarantee more. The difficult thing is finding them. You can start by looking in the "Best Shops" or whatever the name of the forum here and see if there is one recommended in your area. Also ask around and get references about the independent shops.

There are some independents that are rip off artists, but I've seen some dealer shops that could fall into this category.

Secondly, I recommend that you do NOT convert to R134a. Your system is designed for R12. There are horror stories going around that R12 is $80 per can. It is coming down in price due to the fact that many of the older cars requiring it are now being taken off the road. Demand going down means that price is going down. It can now be purchased for about $29 per can with 690 certification.

I would recommend that you search your area for an automotive air conditioning shop. These people are much better equipped and knowledgable. Have them check the system for leaks, repair the leak if there is any, and then recharge with R12. It will probably save you money and your system will cool better AND last longer.

If the a/c shop you find recommends anything other than R12 or R134a, such as Freeze 12, Autofrost, Duracool, etc., don't walk, but RUN away from them. These alternative refrigerants are either blends that present problems in the event of a leak or they are EXPLOSIVE.

Changing to 134 increases the pressures in the system as well as often does not circulate the lubricant through the compressor properly which will lead to failure of components.

My $0.02,

engatwork · #4 08-15-2002, 06:52 AM

Vicki - you did not say what part of the country you are from but I'm sure some members could recommend a reputable shop in your area.

Again, based on where you live you may or may not be happy with the conversion. If you live south of say, OHIO then you will not be happy with it during the heat of the summer

.

I'm with Larry Bible - stick with the r12 - do not become one of the unhappy converts

. Knowing women (like I know them - LOL) and how they like their cool cars you will be better off just getting what you have in proper operating order. Do a search on r12 on here and read the results. As Steve B says - the r12 is probably the most inexpensive part of the mobile a/c system.

vicki · #5 08-15-2002, 09:20 PM

Thanks for all of the good information. We're in the Northwest suburbs of Chicago (Mt. Prospect, Buffalo Grove, Deerfield, Arlington Heights, etc.). If anyone can recommend a good place to have our 1990 500 SL serviced, we'd appreciate it!

Thanks,
Vicki

royaiii · #6 08-15-2002, 10:06 PM

Don't do the conversion. Find someone who does R12 and just recharge w/ R12. R134a does not "roll" w/R12 systems. In my 300E, I asked the mech about conversion and he tried to do it in the past on his own 300e and it started a leak. A leak taking about a day to fix that my own mech is too lazy to do it on his own 300e. Especially w/ the SL model, if you develop a leak expect thousands of dollars in repair.

In fact, the R12 system is a better cooling system.

pentoman · #7 08-16-2002, 08:22 AM

You're right to be a little.. suspicious. Anyone could call their two-bit operation 'specializing in luxury imports'. I'd be wondering why they would say this and limit their business.. maybe they just want to drive around in other peoples expensive cars, or they know they can charge more to luxury import owners? May sound unlikely, but at the least, I would get some references about them - it must be worth a little investigation for peace of mind - or otherwise ask friends (and people here) if they use any good independant shops.

From what I read here, they seem to be few and far between in the USA.

later

Russ

joel · #8 08-16-2002, 09:20 AM

wondered until when will R12 will be allowed to
be used in the U.S. In Canada, it has been
banned and made illegal at least 8 years ago.
Most countries have also banned R12.

Piotr · #9 08-16-2002, 12:22 PM

Funny part about it is that R-12 is not that bad environmentally. on the global scale, it's actually inconsequential. The main producers of greenhouse effect is the industry and coal-using power plants. R-134 is actully also a "greenhouse" gas, but manufactured exclusively by DuPont. They had a multi-BILLION dollar stake in banning freon. Just follow the money trail. By the way, am I the only one noticing a dramatic increase in AC compressor failure rate since the mid-90's (i.e.when the new systems began using R-134)??

I

stevebfl · #10 08-16-2002, 01:53 PM

Freon has a special effect on the atmosphere beyond the "greenhouse effect". Its decomposition into Chlorine and recombination with Ozone O3 is (or is not) a different problem.

Its manufacture was banned by the industrialized nations. Some may actually ban its use, but it is widely manufactuered around the world and on Tech sites I have heard stories of shops using Freon to blow out stalls.

Those issues aside, I wonder why the first shop said that you should upgrade. It would be a real salesman that would suggest that one take an operating R12 system and do anything to it. I must conclude that the system has a leak and is low on refrigerant. If this is the case your most important concern is to get the system fixed properly. Dealers make poor refrigeration specialists as they use so little of the arts of the trade. They repair nothing (only replace) and they seldom use sophisticated leak detecting; using a shotgun instead.

Its too bad our british friend has such poor respect for our independent auto repair trade. Many consumer groups (not industry affiliated) conclude that the consumers best dollar value and highest confidence rate are with the independant repair specialist, not the franchised dealer or other franchise outlets such as tire and exhaust shops.

Piotr · #11 08-16-2002, 04:37 PM

Stevebfl-as it happens I'm a hydrogeologist working for a large (actually, one of the largest) consulting/engineering firms in the US. I would love to have a beer (or 4) and discuss with you "global warming" versus the real data, vs periodic climate changes, vs who stands to gain from panicking the general public into a belief that the end of the world is coming. Completely agree on the rest of your post.

#12 08-16-2002, 06:37 PM

Four years ago my local MB dealer, Keyes Mercedes in Van Nuys, Ca analyzed my 1986 190E 16V non-working A/C and reported that they couldn't fix it because there was a leak in the manifold, which would have to be replaced. Total cost for parts and labor about $1000! The other day I decided to take advantage of a Pep Boys special to check A/C systems for $19.95 so I took the car there and their inspection reported no leaks. So they said the system was repairable and also recommended converting to R134-A. An hour later, my car was ready. The total bill for evacuating the system, changing the components for R134 operation and charging it with refrigerant and oil, was $121.00. The A/C is working again and seems to get just as cold as it did with R12!
To think I trusted the dealer who charged me $77.00 just to tell me that it would cost me another $1K to fix it. As a result, I endured 4 summers without air conditioning! BTW, Pep Boys didn't charge for the $19.95 service.

RSH · #13 08-16-2002, 08:16 PM

You can go to any reliable (good) automobile air conditioning repair facility, they can be hard to find just as a good dealer service department is. Does your a/c not perform because it is low on refrigerant? if its low, it has a leak and must be fixed before a recharge can be done, If you can afford it stay with R12, (you can still buy it) and should still come out less than what most places will charge to change over to R134a and will work much better especially in warmer climates.

#14 08-17-2002, 04:10 PM

In this case the price quoted for using R12 was significantly higher than switching to R134 and including changing the hardware.

stevebfl · #15 08-17-2002, 04:44 PM

As I have pointed out many times the R12 in your A/C is still the cheapest part of it. To settle for crummy A/C to save money on the cheapest part there is poor economics.

I'm sorry but I would have to say that someone who has settled for no A/C for four years is a poor judge of whether it works as well. I have done over a thousand retrofits and still do a number every week. I give a customer what they ask for. Some I spend the time telling them the way it is. Some think this means I'm selling something. They get what they ask for.

The hardest part of being a competent tech is getting people to listen to you.

I'd love to see this car in a year or two. How in H*** can a tech tell that a system is good if it doesn't work. Or did you just turn it off for four years on bad advice. Unless there is no refrigerant in the system WHY would one change the refrigerant?? If there is no refrigerant whats going to keep that new stuff in. R134a leaks about 4 times as easy as R12. It will definitely find a way out of the compressor in a couple years unless it is new now.