Hello all!

My check engine light came on 10 days ago. After reading the forum's messages I was able to get enough information to see what I can do myself. This is what I did:

- read the fault codes
- came out to be code #2, O2 sensor
- bought the OEM part from the internet for $88
- bought a 22mm wrench
- replaced it in less than 15 mins
- called the dealer in Cary, NC to ask how much it would be for the part and labor. They said $162 for the part, and $154 for the labor (2 hours of labor).
- told them I did it in less then 15 mins with an original part that cost me $88.
- the dealer was speechless!

Question, how can we complain about this unfair charge?


Carlos.

Don't burn your bridges.
Someday you may need the dealer.

Don't get me wrong, I don't go to the dealer very much except during the warranty period. That said, the numbers you offer are not terribly out of line.

You bought the part through an aftermarket source of some sort. The dealer is not the most economic source for parts. I think everyone knows that. They are convenient, however. They have it on the shelf(usually) and they stand behind the part AND the service work. If the part you bought gives trouble, you will have to remove it, have the car down, send it off and wait for the replacement while you are walking. If the dealer installed part goes bad, they will have it in stock and replace it at no charge.

The dealer has a lot of money tied up in parts inventory. The benefit to their customer is that the part is on the premises so that they can get your car back on the road the same day(usually.)

As far as the service time goes, yes it seems high, but they have to have some time in these prices for troubleshooting. Had you driven the car in, they would have taken more than fifteen minutes to replace it. It actually took you more than fifteen minutes to replace it because you had to research, test and learn which part to replace. You can't expect them to just know what is bad without doing a little troubleshooting first.

Again, I'm not usually one to take a car that is out of warranty to the dealer, but there are reasons that their charges are what they are. In the case you describe, I don't think there was malicious intent, or a desire to "rip you off."

BTW, you obiously did a good job researching, troubleshooting and repairing your car.

Have a great weekend,

One thing I might add is that I specifically told the dealer to NOT diagnose the problem, just change the part and nothing else.

Carlos.

Well, to be fair, how long did you spend researching the forum, deciding what to try, ordering the part, etc? Then after factoring that time in, how much extensive Mercedes training have you had to solve the problem if it hadn't been so easy? Note that if it had NOT been the sensor, whatever time at the dealer spent getting the part from stock, replacing it, then testing, then pulling the part back out to find the real problem - well, just a waste of time. They too will do an extensive diagnostic before the actual repair.

In short, this forum has saved you a lot of time and money - but that doesn't make the dealer underhanded. It just means you have the time and ability to take advantage of other choices.

Steve

To rdanz, Steve, and Larry Bible, I couldn't have said it better myself. To Carlos, well done.

Just curious, but how much would you have charged yourself for the parts and labor, including the fault diagnosis? Add on to that profit, insurance, capital investment in equipment and training, taxes, the part of your mortgage that covers the garage? I presume you're not going to pay yourself minimum wage and I don't think you'd want a mechanic who is happy at that pay scale either.

carlos

it ALWAYS pays to do your homework and [try to] keep them honest at the stealership. it pays to research and shop several sources.

i prefer oem parts, very often i take my oem parts to the dealership and have them install, if my mechanic/friend/dealer tech can't do it at home for me.

definetly keep yourself in good standing there, [like larry said]
you NEVER know ehn you'll need their help.

peter

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*92 400e 124.034, SOLD

*92 300e 124.030, SOLD

Many years ago, I figured out that I could usually repair my car/motorcycle/boat so much cheaper than paying someone else to do it, that I could botch the job three times over and still at least break even.

There are very few things I won't tackle, and experience has taught me when it's time to go to the dealer. Admittedly, I am a fairly capable home mechanic, but certainly there are times that others are needed. This forum is now part of my research and diagnostic guide.

Over the years, I've amassed a sizeable tool collection and usually enjoyed the work. The few times the dealer was needed has been about 50/50 as far as what I thought a 'fair' price and quality of work.

Please keep in mind that the dealership is not there to move parts from distributors to end users and cash from end users to distributors. They are trying to make a living and have expenses such as people asking them to swap parts for them and then complaining because it didn't solve their problem.

We have the luxury of being handy and inquisitive. Those two traits are very valuable to each of us. Don't beat up the dealer for trying to earn a living from those who can't or won't do the work themselves.

Well, in some cases the dealer is a good place to get your car fixed. I remembver many a time sorting out cars in the dealer enviroment that others had beat on attempting to repair. Generally step one was undoing previous attempts then getting to the source of the probelm.

However, this is not always the case. Yes, dealers are mostly more expensive than indys and certianly more expensive than DIY. However, there comes a time when the dealer is the only source for either a repair or a part. It just dosen't have to be the local one. Shopping is always a good place to start. I figure 9999 out of 1000 repairs can be handled by either the indy or by DIY but, there are simple some things the dealer has the market cornered on either by training or by viture of seriously overpriced test equipment. And once again, getting the correct diagnosis and only the needed part replaced is the key to a cost effective repair. Once again I refer to the number of times I've seen good money after bad throw into a car attempting a repair based on either a faulty diagnosis or on lack of product knowledge.

That being said as a indy I will tell you this much, unless I know you and know your ability to diagnosis your own complaint I will not blindly accept your diagnosis before perform a repair. Reason being is simple, I have followed these diagnosis's in the past only to have the repair not solve the problem. Then when informed the client would get angry and expect the problem fixed for free, even tho' I didn't do the diagnosis. Personally I'd rather lose the repair money than deal with the bull**** that comes into these situations. It simply is not efficient use of time and resources.

Odds are you'll find most dealers are the same way. Finding one to do a repair without doing at least a general recheck of the problem might be kinda tough. The dealer you refer to in Cary just happens to be manned by several of my ex-coworkers of whom several have my respect as damn good techs. Is the place expensive, hell yeah, are parts costs outragous, oh yeah. Is the work good? In most cases yes. Nope, I'm not blowing smoke up your ass, just giving you another angle of perspective.

As is well known here, I firmly beleive in educated clients and endorse DIY repairs, I think its great that people know their cars and know 'em well. This does nothing but make my job easier and being a basiclly lazy human appeals to me. (afterall knowledge is king) Would I rather have your service and repair business over recomending the dealer? Yep. I do however see both the need and the service dealer service departments perform.

Joe

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Project Smoker, '87 603 powered wagon
Hauler, 96 CTD can you say torque?
Toy 73 Cougar xr7 convertible
Acme Automotive Inc.
Raleigh NC
919-881-0364

A bunch of good insight, and I don't want to get started, but what you paid were your costs. I would hope that you understand that a business doesn't do work for cost. You all understand that, of course, .... But the problem with DIYers is they have no concept of the true costs of auto repair.

This could go on forever, but just to scratch the surface and hopefully spark a degree of understanding I wish everyone to figure the health care costs associated with auto repair.

My shop pays 30% more for the health insurance of our employees and their families than the mortgage costs of our $1,000,000 facility (physical plant only). When you do that work at home and its cheaper remember WHY! I only picked one area, and one that most repair facilities have to skip in order to keep prices in check. Next time you go looking for that cheap guy, ask yourself how many auto repair costs he short changed for your benefit.

I guess I'm going now, but I got to tell you the story about the the little shop by the bus station. It was a dump, an old gas station, run by a moderately competent Volvo tech. He paid no workers comp, was renting and had no issurance, he paid his help as subcontractors to avoid FICA. He had a great following of people who thought they were saving money cause he beat the system in all these ways. What they didn't know was that he had to pay cash for all his suppliers and before he madea dollar on parts the customer had paid 30-50% more for parts than if they had dealt with a real businessman.

And finally, when you call and ask a dealer to install a part for no diagnostic time, they are not about to cut you any slack as you are obviously not a customer for what they hae to sell.

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Steve Brotherton
Continental Imports
Gainesville FL
Bosch Master, ASE Master, L1
33 years MB technician

Its good to hear from both sides.

I would imagine you could also compare it to going to the doctor when you have a mild flu. Buying vitamin C and medicine from the drug store would also be cheaper. At least it would be for me since I have crappy insurance.

I'm surprised that no one mentioned it, but new car dealers have one main objective. To SELL NEW CARS! Maintaining a service department is a necessary evil in the world of new car dealers. To be successful you've got to service what you sell. Make no mistake about it, the real money is made in the showroom, not the shop. The expense of maintaining a fully equipped, modern shop is staggering when compared to the costs/hassles of running a showroom. The dealer principals have to spend a lot more $$$ to make a lot less when it comes to service. I'm sure the principals wouldn't even have a service department if they didn't have to. I can honestly say that I agree with everyone who has responded to this thread. Frankly, I thought it would wind up being a "dealer bashing" party! At the dealer I work for, we offer service specials for owners of older/out of warranty cars that are competitive with the indies in our area. We understand that not all MB owners are millionaires. I personally try to give a little extra when I am working on an out of warranty car, because I know that someone is going to have to reach into their pocket at the end of the day. Anyway, thats my two cents. Seeya

Whoa Nellie ! ! !

Where did you get your information ? ? ?

The SERVICE and PARTS depts. PAY THE BILLS of the ENTIRE dealership . . .

I will agree that dealership management/owners regard the BACK END as a RED HAIRED CHILD that gets the least love, but is the key to their survival . . .