Back to Square One w/No

[MB Paba]

My '97 E300D (131K) is having an intermitant No crank situation. The dash lights come on but not always the same ones. Sometimes its just the lower ones and on subsequent turns of the key, the yellow ! will come on and the reserve fuel light. When it does start, the ETS code on the screen can be reset. It has said Display defective as well but it clears too. What does Display Defective Mean?

Every few tries there is a slight clicking sound like it could possibly be the starter solenoid.

I have: R&R battery for testing-Good
R&R the starter for testing-spun right up, tested Good
Removed the K40 and soldered 4 hairline cracks, car started and ran fine for 2 days, now won't.

Questions: Does anyone think a new K40 could solve the problem? What do you make of the starter solenoid sounding like it is trying to kick in once in awhile? The headlights stay strong when the ignition is turned to start but the A/C blower motor drags way down.

Would be VERY grateful for some help...
MB Paba

[TMAllison]

You say at times it will not crank at all when the key is turned and that teh battery is good.

Is it possible the battery in the key is low and is preventing the key from communicating with the car sometimes?

When my shut off solenoid malfunctioned I could tell if it would start when the key was turned to position 2 by hearing the valve open with a click on the side of the IP. This sound is much quieter than what I would describe the typical starter solenoid kick.

[Gilly]

The "display defective" is a self-fault message for the DIC (driver information center), in other word the instrument cluster is narcing on itself.
Whole problem reeks of a bad ignition switch (electrical switch, not the lock)
Gilly

[MB Paba]

The usual clicking of the fuel shutoff and air valve still happen. The once in awhile rapid clicking does sound like the starter solenoid. Haven't been able to get the car to crank at all now for a couple of days.

Gilly,
Yes, it does seem like the ignition switch is having some problem because when I move the ignition assy. up and down different lights may come on the cluster.

Any diffinitive way to determine if the electrical part of the switch is bad? Does it unplug from the back of the lock cyl? The whole assy. is a bit loose.

Thanks for the input!

[Gilly]

Yes it more or less is plug and play. There is a cumbersome electrical connector that is removed, then a couple plastic pins which secure the switch into the lock housing. Not too bad to do once you know how to do it, first time seems hard. Not liking the description of the whole assembly feeling loose, that's odd and I can't explain it. The housing is attached to the steering column pretty darn securely, the housing being loose is the only way the switch or lock should seem loose.
If you can monitor voltage at the small wire to the starter, it should tell you if you are getting battery voltage to the starter to pull in the solenoid, would be a good bet it's the switch if you aren't getting battery voltage in the "crank" position on the switch. You can also jump battery voltage to that small connector on the solenoid and the starter should engage. Check battery voltage lately?
Gilly

[MB Paba]

Gilly,
I removed the under dash panel today and checked things out. I also have printed out the WIS docs.
Yes, the whole assy. is loose and wobbles where it goes into the steering column. Should I just tighten up the bolt?

I will jack the car up tomorrow and check battery voltage to the solenoid wire from the ign. switch.

Can you explain why the instructions say to remove the escutchon around the key switch first? Can it just be taken off from the bottom end or does the turning it out unscrew it from the elect. switch? It started to turn out with my fingers and then stopped. When I got under the dash and looked, an electrical wire was getting tight from the turning of the assy. I guess it is the transponder coil wire.

Many Thanks,
MB Paba

[Gilly]

As I recall, no need to mess with the escutcheon. You turn the key to #1 position, then press the square button on the electrical connector and slide the bar back to release the electrical connector. Then the 2 round buttons are pressed in, this will release the electrical switch, it is then slid back out of the housing. Then put it back together the same way. I may have oversimplified, but that's the gist of it right there.
As far as the lock housing being loose in the column, that MAY be from the escutcheon being loose. You can certainly try tightening the nut on special retaining bolt. Isn't the profile kind of a rounded off square shape where the lock inserts into the steering jacket?
Gilly

[MB Paba]

Gilly,
I got the switch out as per your directions, GREAT help by the way. I first checked battery voltage at the lug under the car which then goes to the starter. It was 12.57 Is this high enough?

I also found the voltage readings to the solenoid wire a bit strange. In position 1 there is voltage (under 8, shouldn't there be NO voltage) and then when turned to the start position 3, it goes to 11.7 volts but of course no ing.

I have taken the battery and starter both to autozone and had them tested. Both were good. When the car started and ran normally for 2 days, it ed very strongly.

Any further thoughts or should I just go with the new K40 and ignition switch as planned?

Thanks,
MB Paba

Oh ya, in case you're wondering...don't have the new switch yet, was supposed to be in on friday but the parts were delivered to Fort Wayne!

[Gilly]

I am having trouble understanding what you are trying to tell me with the last sentence in the 3rd paragraph. I know there is a type ("ed very strongly" I assume is "started very strongly"), but not sure of the sequence of events now. And OK, so with the key in pos. 1 you had less than 8 volts, which probably not enough to pull in the solenoid, but should be 0 volts, correct. 12.57 batt voltage is fine at this point, you are essentially getting batt voltage at that lug. Incidentally I HAVE seen bad corrosion on the OTHER side of this lug on a 210 before (under the carpet inside the car, something to keep in mind). On the last sentence in the second paragraph, I am also left to assume "of course no ing" is no starting or cranking? 11.7 is still not where it should be. Sometimes with a bad connection you will get a reasonable amount of voltage but not enough amps to do the job. You could try c-a-r-e-f-u-l-l-y jumping (with a proper jumper wire) battery voltage from that big batt lug to the stud the small wire attaches to on the solenoid and THAT should pull in the solenoid and cause the engine to crank. Using every precaution of course, ie trans in neutral, parking brake applied, life insurance paid up . Kids in the house, heh heh. I'd hook up to the solenoid first, then to the big lug, easier to connect/disconnect at the lug. If that's all successful I'd go with the ignition switch first, wait and see what all happens with the crazy instrument cluster at that point. I should point out that the STARTING problem could also be the neutral switch, try starting it in neutral once and see if it has an effect, but the ign switch is WAY more suspect, based both on past experience and the other troubles you are having.
Gilly

[MB Paba]

Gilly,
Sorry for the missing letters in some of the sentences. I need to do the preview first. For some reason they get removed when I hit submit. The forum sure doesn't like words like ing, it just removed them again so will just try and word things differently.

What I meant to say was the engine does not turn over. But after I soldered the hairline breaks in the metal ribons of the K40 relay, the starter turned the engine over on first turn of the key and worked normally for two days. Then back to nothing happening when key was turned to position 3.

I did try jumping the solenoid, just like you said, putting an aligator clip on the solenoid lug and then jumped to the big lug coming from under carpet area. It did draw the solenoid in but was too weak to turn the starter. Your thoughts about a corroded connection on the lug under the carpet may be right on. I will tackle cleaning up that terminal next.

Also, I have tried placing the shifter into neutral and it made no difference.
My new ignition switch should arrive tomorrow. I will still plan on cleaning that terminal before I put the new switch in.

Lastly, you ROCK! Thanks for hanging in there with me. I truly appreciate your efforts.

Larry

[Gilly]

Oh, you don't have to thank me Larry, you have to PAY me. Heh heh, j/k.
Look for greenish/blueish corrosion inside and out on that big lug/stud on the floor. If you undertake dismantling of it, be sure to pull the neg terminal off the battery (big time "bzzzzzt" otherwise. Something will be taken care of in a flash, but it won't be business)(bad Elvis reference).
Gilly

[MB Paba]

Gilly,
I hope that sincere THANKS will at least help!! You really nailed it. I installed the new ignition switch and then went to work on the grounds. Really cleaned up the grounds under the hood (front of fuse box) and then went inside, removing the carpet, etc. They didn't seem to need it but cleaned them thoroughly too. Lastly did the stuff underneath.

One side note, I decided to take off the body to engine/tranny ground to clean its connections too and was surprised to find the big bolt on the bellhousing could almost have been taken loose with my fingers. The car had a MB rebuilt trans put in at 109K so guess the bolt wasn't tightened good.

SUCCESS: the starter spun up very strong on the first turn of the key, no errors on the display anymore, such as ETS, Display Defective, or anything else.

Like I said, Gilly, YOU ROCK!!!

Many Thanks!
Larry

[Gilly]

Yeah, can't have them 97 Diesels sittin around not starting right, next thing you know it's sitting on blocks and petunias are growing out around the edges of the hood. GLAD you got it all working correctly. Be careful with it now or Mercedes might not sell you another one, heh heh, fat chance...
Gilly