Request to members in Germany - Klann or SIR spring compressor
 

Gentlemen - you may have seen the recent idea of a group purchase of the Klann or SIR Tool MB spring compressor. These tools are ridiculously expensive here - $600-$800.

As they are made in Germany, I wonder if any German members on this bulletin board would consider making a bulk purchase for those interested here - I would guess that 10 or so purchases would be made, and most would prefer the superior Klann. I would bet that the German price is far lower than the marked up US one, which few here can justify for an occasional use tool.

The Klann is illiustrated here.

I don't know but it would seem fair to me that if the price is say, 50% of the US price, the buyer should get a 10% commission for his efforts.

Please let us know.

Thank you.

Don't know about their compressors but its my impression that SIR makes its tools here. They probably source out a lot of their tools though.

Thanks, Steve
 

Hope you don't mind my email topic - not looking to make this a commercial proposition, just trying to save us amateurs some cash.

Thomas.

As you might have noticed I have no problem with DIY. I work with a number of people locally by supplying parts and advice. The main problem I have is when people misunderstand my position.

I am currently in such a situation with a new BMW owner (new ownership - old car). After answering a few questions and providing a few parts he came to me confused by the reaction he was getting from my partner who is more the public front to our company. He didn't know the status of the parts ordered and really didn't need to be bothered by the interuption.

I had to tell him that as someone expecting online prices and free info, he could not expect the same type of customer service we give retail customers. AND even more so he couldn't come at lunch or at 5 o'clock and expect us to drop what we are doing to meet his needs. I told him to not come before he called or emailled me and that if he did he would be the last in line. I had to remind him that I try to make a living doing this stuff.

That's right, Steve, we forget that your helping out people locally and all of us on this site is a charitable act.

It's too bad you can't call it "consulting" and write it off on your income taxes.

You know, time spent helping out on this site X $60 / hr. consulting fee = amount of charitable contribution.;)

I'll have to look into that (bg).

Thomas and I are both on the hunt for a spring compressor since we are both undertaking the same endeavor. Recently there was a post about replacing the lower balljoints on a 126 using the weight of the car and a jackstand to retain the spring (with the shock still attached). There was some lively debate about this practice and the MB manual even states to do it this way as long as the lower control arm isn't being removed - there was also some discussion about an error in the translation.

After reading all about this, before I started out I did a little experiment. I placed the car on stands under the LCA. I shook the car, bounced and tried to rock it, everything held. Then I lifted the car about 1/4 inch on one side and repeated the test. Much to my surprise the car shifted on the stand. The jack slid up the control arm, coming to rest at the LCA bushing mount. I live in California, as does Thomas, and sometimes the earth moves out here.

http://www.pe.net/~mktangas/scary%202.JPG

Very scary indeed. Glad I played around ahead of time, imagine what would have happened if the stand moved while the steering knuckle was removed :eek:.

I have tried a couple different spring compressors, but none will fit between the coils or down inside the spring mount. Looks like it has to be the high dollar compressor. Fortunately I am in a position I don't have to have the car ready by 0600 tomorrow. Only took about an hour to get to the spring removal point, but now I'm stuck here. The spring has to come out to access the guide rod mount at the LCA.

Definitely be careful supporting the car on the control arms. You do not need to do this though. The shock will hold the spring just fine. It better as its loading over bumps is a whole lot worse.

For those working on 126 and 123 cars one can make a very sturdy spring compressor using the crosshead of a six inch puller, a length of 5/8in threaded rod and a hunk of 1/4in steel plate about 7inches by 3inches with a 5/8 hole in the middle.

The puller head on that size has a bigger than 5/8 in hole in it and is usually a inch thick casting. Place it over the hole in the upper spring perch, drop the rod with one or two nuts on it through the hole and into the center of the spring. As far down the spring as possible slide the 1/4 plate through the coils and pass the bolt through the center hole and place one or two nuts.

Tighten the nuts. The spring is pulled tightly against the upper perch and everything can be removed. This works on a number of chassis. If the spring is to be replaced just make sure your threaded rod is long enough to alllow all the tention to be released before the end of the threads.

We have done it this way for years. To facilitate matters we took a deepwell socket the size of those 5/8 nuts and cut it in half. We took a fifteen inch section of 1 1/4in chrome moly thick walled tube and welded between the two socket sections to make a 15 inch deep well socket to allow quick turning of the upper nut with an air wrench. Not including labor the total costs couldn't be much. The puller or reasonable facsimile ought to be less than 50 bucks on ebay and is always usefull for its original purposes and the socket can't be too much, the rest can't be more than ten bucks.

HMMMM. I like that idea Steve. One could probably substitute the puller head for a circular piece of 3/8 or 1/2 plate and accomplish the same. Just suck the spring up into the mount and work away.

I'll see what I can come up with tomorrow.

spring compressor
 

hello guys

read thomas's post and i've been kicking it around about making my own. my first thought was to copy the samstag design on the plates and center locking mechanism. though i didn't want to shoot my mouth off before knowing if i could but after reading steve's post his seems right on target and very do - able. in fact just a block of steel drilled and tapped in the center should work for the head. just for an added measure of safety i would add perhaps a groove for the springs to sit in so there would be no chance of the tool slipping to one side and i would use B7 fine thread harden all thread rod for the center rod. you could mig weld what ever size nut on the rod you wanted.

one question thou. i know the front springs are open at the top so you can put the rod down thru the spring. but tell me how are the rear springs? i haven't scooted under the rear yet but if the top and bottom is closed how would you insert the rod???

it would be very easy to machine the groove on the end pieces and easy to tap thru it with 5/8 thread or bigger for that matter.

thanks for the ideas
craig

Mike,

I can see by the pic that you posted that you are using the wrong style jack stand. You need one with a saddle type top. Although I have a factory spring compressor, I never use it for ball joints, because it takes too much time. I use a jack stand that isn't prone to sliding and place it between the lower ball joint and the shock mount.

Peter

Perhaps I should retract that last statement, because I lower the hoist down to the jack stand which keeps the whole car level. Positioning a jack stand under a control arm on a car jacked up on one wheel puts an angle on the control arm that could allow the stand to slip. After rethinking it the compressor would be safest if you aren't using a hoist.

Peter

I read Steve's post with some interest. I made such a compressor some years ago and used it to compress (not remove) the rear springs so I could change the trailing arm bushings in a 114 chassis. Naturally I figured I could use it to compress and remove the front springs on my 123 chassis. In fact, the original factory design compressor was not a whole lot different. Well, coming out was OK, even though the springs bent quite a bit under compression. BUT, I had no success compressing the springs for reinstallation. The front springs are quite long and want to bend. On mine, the lower plate would slide to the side to the point where the rod bent. I even made some 1/4" plywood discs that I slid between the coils and stacked on the rod to stop the slipping (which didn't work). I ended up borrowing the right compressor from a kind soul. So, I wonder where I went wrong.

There probably is some technique to using the home rig. You are right the thing slips to the side. The trick is using the tool as little as possible and using other forms of persuation.

I have my allthread, nuts and washers. Plates are being made today. Total cost, less than $10. My plan of attack is to simply suck the springs up just enough to take the tension off the LCA. Once the tension is off I am free to remove the spindles.

Before you make a real job of this, I must point out that there is no reason to deal with the spring. The shock will hold everything in place. If you doubt it just use the spring compressor as a back up.

You will have to fight the spring moving off to the side when fully held by the tool. This makes getting it started properly into its seat a bit of a problem. Properly used persuation makes short work of this but may take some effort to learn. Leave the spring in the seat take up some pressure if you like, but let it drop to the shock and support the car on the frame points.

Steve,

It appears that the guide rod mount at the LCA cannot be removed with the spring seat and shock in place. Since I am going through the front end I plan on replacing these mounts as well, since the rubber has deteriorated.

Maybe I didn't cover that earlier. Maybe I'm missing a trick here. Let me take another look at the situation.

I used a floorjack to lift up the lower control arm, in order to take the pressure of the nut that holds the upper arm. The floojack had a nice cup on it, that kept the lower arm from sliding off. I have used this method to replace lower balljoint, and upper control arm/balljoint.
I would trust a slippery looking bottle jack, like the one that Mike tried to use (glad to hear you are ok Mike), about as far as I could throw an OM617. :D

-Larry

Oh well I guess I don't get to keep any secrets. The caster joint (as I call it) becomes really simple with a small non MB tool. A porta power.

This is a hydraulic ram that is hand operated. The ram is placed on the lower control arm in the area of the lower ball joint and the other end rests on the frame in the rear (some where I don't really remember but where ever it's solid). A few pumps, and the removal of the vertical bolts, allows the small aluminum subframe (that houses the joint) to hang in space. Now just unscrew it from the strut rod.

Remove and replace the joint and install in reverse order. My best guy at this (he is not a fast tech just the one who does it the most) can do both sides in about 20 minutes, but he usualy takes an hour. It is one of the places we win at as we charge 3 hours. If you do it your way you will be lucky to do it in three hours (both sides).

We almost never release the spring. Replacement of the lower control arm or the forward strut arm bushings maybe (they are under the lower spring seat).

Mike, since you are talking about removing the forward strut arm bushings and not the caster joint alone, you will run into the problem I had. Using the threaded rod & plate rig, the springs bent inward until they were hard up against the inside wall of the wheelhouse. As Steve says, with some force with the appropriate tool might force them back so you can get them back onto the seat on the LCA. I think it is easier on a lift (which Steve would have available) than it is for us guys working from jackstands. You might try forcing blocks of wood between the spring and the wheelhouse before you compress the springs so they will hold their position in line with the seat. I tried just about everything and finally swallowed my pride and went begging. With the KLANN compressor I had the springs in place on both sides within 20 minutes.

To Mike's issue.
As someone mentioned, the stand for this application should be the type that is designed to receive an old-fashioned tube axle, with a concave top. These are commonly available, and cheap.
The stand should be positioned as far out on the CA as possible.
Remember, you are trying to emulate the wheel. Therefore, the weight needs to be supported on the other side of the fulcrum (which is the spring mount, in this case). You may need to remove the wheel to get the stand far enough out before dropping the weight of the car onto it.

As a bonus, those with a 124 or 201 will find a more perfect 'slot' in the CA to receive the stand just inboard from the balljoint.

Let's see. I plan on replacing the guide rod (track rod, caster rod...) mounts at both ends,so I will be dropping the bearing bracket. I don't have my pictures here at work, but looking closely I might be able to angle the foward bushing out with the shock removed and only one side still captured under the spring seat. If that is the case, I can let it wait until the new ball joints are in and the spindles reinstalled before removing the shocks. Time is not an issue...yet. I don't have a porta-power, but I do have a come-along.

Now for the jack stand picture. Everyone needs to realize I was not working on the car. I was testing whether the stand would/could slip as had been opined in a previous thread. The picture proves it can and did. The stand in question does have a saddle recess, that isn't seen in the angle of the shot, it's just not a deep saddle. The stand was placed intitially just outboard of the spring seat (granted not optimal, but as close as I could get it with the wheels on), then the car was lifted slightly from the opposite side (bear in mind I have seen cars bounce several inches in a good quake), that minor lift and a little movement allowed the stand to slip, coming to rest as pictured. I have never had a stand slip on me before, ever. Just a good reminder that everything is not as secure as it seems.

Everyone's help and concerns are appreciated. That's what I love about this site, there is something for everyone and plenty to learn.

Mike makes an important point....
 

....for those of us residing in earthquake prone areas.

I am reminded that when the Northridge, CA quake struck (1985?), its epicenter was 2 miles from my home in the Encino hills of the San Fernando Valley and my 500 lb. BMW R90/6 motorbike jumped off its center stand and fell on its side - gas everywhere from a broken carb spigot. I was in San Diego at the time (2 am?) and the shock woke me up even 130 miles away, so solid supports tend to be on our minds!

P.S. WHERE are our German buddies? That's what started this.

Well, I have to chime in here. I of course have designed a coil dspring compressor that I was going to make. I was designing the concept after the Sir Tool/Klann plate system. The attached diagram is the design I came up with for the plate. I was going to have a 18 inch grade 8 bolt cut at a local shop here for $40. The problem I see is you have to insert a bolt from the top down to the plate that will be inserted through the spring coils and then capture this unit. You have to prevent the plate from slipping right or left. The squiggily lines on my photo represents the depression milled or ground into the plate. The 90 degree cuts will alow the plate to be inserted and then as the coil winding increases, the coil will bypass the plate, at the 90 degree cutout and raise up through the opening. The grove will help prevent the coil from moving. The fact that the disk is 5" in diameter prevents the plate from slipping through the coils and slip off the coil spring. Sort of the manhole cover idea. The manhole covers are round so they can't slip down the hole. Any other shape could slip down the hole.
You have to keep the spring as straight as you can. Even with the Sir tool I found that the coil would tilt at times. But it was controlled.
The opening in the disk will allow the bolt to slip into the opening and center in the disk. the bolt washer has 2 roll pins that will go into the holes drilled in the plate. This is to prevent the plate from rotating and driving itself up the coil spring.
The top washer would go over the top opening. I was going to again use grade 8 nuts, hopefully a 2" long nut to tighten the assembly. And some grease on the treads and the top hole washer. The top left item shows the 2 washers that would make the top washer. the smaller diameter woul dcenter the bolt in the top holeof the spring perch.
Additionally I woul dconsider welding some guides in the plate to prevent it from slipping off the coil and hold it steady in the center of the coil spring.
I was looking at pulling the spring into the top pearch and then releasing it . I was going to change the springs out. I feel this would have worked. But was concerned about the deadly compressed energy. I chose to buy the Sir tool.
Thomaspin has a wonderfull milling/lathe unit and I'm sure he could make on of these plates. Maybe he will give it a try.
The dimemsions are for the front springs only on the 123. The rear springs used the larger plate that came with the Sir Tool.
I can measure it if anyone wants it.
The rear spring. You would remove the shock or hydraulic shock and insert the plate at the top. The lenght of the rod may have to be different then the one for the front.
You would then screw the spring down to the trailing arm. Remove the arm and then you could release the spring for replacement or leave it attached while R+R the bushings.
I did find that with the Sir tool I still had to have the subframe bushing bolt released and the front subframe lowered about 4-5 inches to get the spring installed.
The Sir tool and maybe the Klann will compress only so far and you have only 5 coils to compress or you can't get the plates out once you release the tension. Therefor the spring is not compressed tightly as shown in the Mercedes service manual. A limitation of the Sir Tool.

Dave

Anyone think this device would work?

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/pho...7899/47890.gif

Dave - as I understand your piece....
 

....the slot in the plate allows you to thread it up to the top of the spring by rotating it aound the coils as you go up?

What sort of steel and what thickness would have to be used to make this safe?

Also, wouldn't the roll pins in the bolt washer have to be quite massive to resist any sideways force form the compressed spring?

I like the idea.

csnow

I looked at the hydraulic unit. It can only handle 1500 Lbs. And the compressed springs have more force than that. I;m afraid they would not be strong enough.

Thomaspin

Due to the opening in the springs as they are installed in the car. I was looking at making the thickness of the plate 3/8" thick.
would cut a groove in the plate to hold the spring. It could be a v groove or rounded. I would center the groove at 2" from center. Cut it 2/16" deep based on a 5/8th inch coil diameter.

The bolt would slip down through the spring perch hole and you would slid the plate over the bolt shaft to catch the plate on the bolt head. You have to prevent the plate from rotating. Sir tool does this by mlling the bolt head shape into the plate. See the bottom plate on the photo. You could do this on your machine.
As you look at the photo you can see that the plate grooves are much larger than I was considering. You could make the groove wider but I would not consider making it deeper. You'll effect the strenght of the plate structure.
If you could find stronger metal than plate steel, stainless would be better. stronger would be best. The strength shold be fine.
I wanted the grade 8 bolt for tread strength.
Roll pin
The hole in the bottom plate would be ever so slightly larger than the bolt shaft. The washer with roll pins could not be larger that the hole at the top of spring perch. That measurement in the 123 is 1 3/4 " So I figures 1 5/8 diameter. Once the bolt and washer engages the plate you need to hold it in the center of the plate, that is what the roll pins are for. The roll pins will also stop the washer/bolt assembly from rotating on the plate.
Having the mill/lathe unit you could build a washer with slots to match the bolt head. Just as Sir tool did. This would hold the plate against the bolt head. Or the washer could be welded to the bolt.
As you tighten the nut at the top of the spring perch to compress the coil spring. You don't want the plate/bolt assembly to rotate or it will screw the plate up the coils of the spring.
So the top washer should allow the nut to rotate, the grease idea, but the washer should remain stationary. Just now I realize you could weld a handle onto the top washer to hold the unit. One hand holds the washer handle and the other works the ratchet on the nut. Ideally the ratchet would be a box wrench rachet. Since in this design the bolt would be raising up through the washer/bolt assembly.

How strong a metal can you cut on your lathe/milling machine. That may determine what you would make the plate out of. As stated I would use a grade 8 bolt. I can give you the name of the company here that can make it. Its a $40 set up fee and probably a few bucks for the bolt stock. They can make it as long as you want, up tp 36" I think.
If you want me to email you a copy of the plans I made let me know. If I had your lathe/mill I would have made the tool.

Dave

Dave - my lathe/mill...
 

...is pretty poncy - struggles with big stuff on stainless.

An alternate coil spring compressor.
Check the opening of the hole at the top of the spring perch.
Mine is 1 3/4 inch in size in the 123. I looked at this tool and felt that it would work except the lower ball nut. It was to large for the opening I have in the 123 ( we would be using it upside down in the Mercedes). Measure your hole and if its greater than 1 15/16" I would check out this unit. You have to have the lower ball nut fit through the spring perch opening.

http://www.handsontools.com/store/show_product/?product_id=1973

Well I just took a break and measured the 300SDL spring perch opening. It was 2.5 inches. This tool may very well work. The only consideration is the outside diameter of the plate versus the out side diameter of the spring in the 126 series.
Additionally this would not work on ALL mercedes as the Klann and Sir Tool does. Due to the size of the spring perch opening. However you may be able to use a plate of steel on the 123 spring and just pull the spring up into the perch
The OTC plate is 5 1/4 inches maximum by 3 1/2 inches. It is oval. The springs on the 126 body are 5 inch in diameter. So it will work on the 126. The rear springs I don't know. Its raining outside and I don't want to climb under a wet car to measure the rear springs.
The 123 springs are 4.5" front (overall outer diameter)and 5.5" rear. I had to use the large Sir tool plate for the rears. The Sir tool plates are approximately 5 inches (small) and 6 inches (large)

Soooo!! this OTC tool may work. Please don't go out and buy it and find out that it doesn't work, and then blame me.
Take measurements of the tool and your car suspension and see if it will work

Well I have reviewed my notes on this tool and as far as I can tell on the 126, this tool WILL work in concept on the front springs. The center piece of the plate has a hub that is measured 3 1/2 inches, look at the bottom plate in the photo. Will this fit inside the spring coils???? Someone needs to get an acurate measurement of the inside on the coil spring for a 126. It may work, But no garrantees.


When you look at the photo you see the plate is oval shaped. The large dimension is 5 1/4 " The narrow dimension is 3 3/4"
the bottom plate shows a center hub. this is to center the plate and to prevent the plate from slipping to one side or the other. that hub is 3 1/2 inches ( I think someone needs to check that dimension if thinking of this tool).
HERES THE ASSUMPTION. The 123 and 126 shop manual call for the same rear spring compressor. Therefore the springs probably have the same total outside diameter. ASSUMING THIS. When I measure the 123 rear spring I realize that the plate will fit safely into the spring and can be used. Now does the lower ball nut on the compressor fit through the trailing arm opening where the shock attaches.??? I don't know.
If the nut will fit through the trailing arm opening then it will work on the rear of the 126. You may have to place the bottom plate on the outside of the trailing arm, if it doesn't and tighten it to remove the trailing arm then R+R the new spring.


The dimemsions of the 123 rear spring for comparison.
overall diameter 5 3/8"
inner coil spring diameter 3 3/4 "
center of coil to center of coil 4 3/4"
coil diameter 5/8"
I used inches because its easier.

Again this may only work on the 126 and not any others. I don't know the dimensions of the other Mercedes models.


Dave

hi folks

let me ask 1 question here.

is this spring compressor you've been talking about capable of doing both the front and back springs and work on a 126?

i want to change my springs front and rear with the sport springs.
tks
craig

A couple of years ago I did some consulting work for a shop that predominately worked on products that spewed out of Michigan. They got a Camarro in that needed front spring removal,so I checked my MB factory spring removal tool and the coils were the same diameter. The tool worked perfectely. Perhaps a GM tool may work on a Mercedes and cost less. I don't know.

Peter

amfcorp. Which compressor are you talking about?

The Sir Tool ($550) will do the following Mercedes bodies. 107,116,123,124,126,129,201,202,210 and 140 as per Oliver Sir of Sir tools.

I do not have the Klann tool (Approx $750) so I'm not quite sure which bodies it will do. Since it is of the same basic design I'm sure that it will do the same cars.

The OTC tool ($219 designed for Ford). I know it will NOT do the 123 as per the instructions ( both plates used, compress the spring and remove it from below. vs only one plate, pull the spring up into the spring perch so you can remove the lower control arm). The spring perch hole is to small to get the unit into the spring center. That is not to say that you could use just one plate and pull the spring up tight into the spring perch.

The unit we are trying to build, That I copied the plate size from Sir Tool would be sized to fit the 123 body. With slight changes in the washer sizes it will also do the 126. the 126 has a 2.5 inch openning at the top vs 1 3/4" on the 123. To make it work you have to build 2 plates( the Sir and Klann tool come with 4 total plates). One size for the front and one for the rear. If you read the post on the alternate coil spring compressor you will see that I made ASSUMPTIONS about the size of the 126 rear springs. At $219 for the OTC tool. If you can make it work on both the front and rear 126 and 123 then you would have something there that will probably work on the majority of the Mercedes!!!

Dave

hi dave

i haven't wanted to butt in on the thread but i've been planning a spring change on my 88 126 to the sport springs and bilsteens. i didn't want to open my mouth because sometimes i get swamped and can hardly keep up with the day to day business. so these little personal pleasures seem to always take a back seat.

i have a CNC machine shop so machining anything isn't really a problem. my design that i've boiled this down to is very close to the factory tools using block style plates and a multiple piece center rod with a thrust washer to keep the torques as low as possible and the center rod utilizes an ACME thread. much stronger and a faster turn per inch ratio.

i settled on the acme thread because you can buy the rod already machined and the nuts as well. so this cuts a lot of time off. my biggest obstacle is getting underneath the car and getting the measurements. my 88 has been in my shop since december and i am just getting to the euro lights. (i think i've come up with an easy conversion using the existing us wiper motors and brackets adding 1 - 6 pin receptacle it fits right up to the new fitting using the city lights) anyway...

i don't have a 123 so if you'd like to send me those dimensions i could work up a couple of plates for that size.

i'll keep everyone updated as i get thru this project.

PS: to mike tangas, i'm not sure what part you're working on replacing mike but try jacking the car up first putting a floor stand on the frame, then take the tire off and use your floor jack on the center hub of the front rotor. that way your car can't go anywhere and by using the rotor you're going to get the spring partially collapsed before installing the compressor.

also regarding the center pillar we spoke about i've at least got the material and the pillar in the house and on the kitchen table and it's only taken me 2 weeks. today was our 31st anniversary and we spent it working late and ordering in our dinner.

guys this is a great forum with excellent info flowing thru it so i'm so glad i found this site!

Dave - on those OTC dimensions
 

If the lower OTC plate circular section is 3.5" diameter and the inner MB spring is 3.75" diameter*, that allows 0.25" of sideways play.

My first reaction was that that's too much as the upper plate is 5.25" wide vs. MB's 5" OD on the spring. Also 0.25". So wouldn't you run the risk that the upper plate could, with sideways motion of 0.25", fall into the spring under tension? Or does the 3.75" dimension on the upper plate preclude sideways motion as the upper and lower plates are effectively locked together by the pin and, at 3.75", the upper plate would be a perfect fit in the MB's 3.75" ID?

Your thoughts would be appreciated, but if I'm correct, above, the tool should work on the MB front springs.

BTW I'm intrigued to see what Craif (afmcorp) comes up with - he's an expert machinist.

* Not sure if I'm reading you right - I get the sense that the upper plate is either 3.75" or 3.5" narrow).

The problem with making the plates is that they do not sit perpendicular to the center line of the spring. They must conform to the angle of the coil (which changes as they are compressed.

Quite some channel should be allowed for; I don't think 1/8in is deep enough. The pivot on the center bolt will also have to pivot.

Thomaspin
I have to leave on a trip. I'll be back tonight. Have to go to Las Vegas and back.
I want to explain some of the limitations of the OTC unit while using it.
Dave

A short post for tonight.
The OTC unit could present some problems. The half domed shape unit that would be at the bottom the spring is to large to slip between the coils. So it would have to be dropped down from the top. Then held some how so that you can slip the treadded rod through the plate then the ball and then place the pin that goes into the half dome and through the treaded rod. All of this at the bottom of the coils spring which is very difficult to get your fingers into.
I have other ideas BUT!!!!!!!

My company, American Airlines, just missed the bullet with the Flight Attendant vote. They voted to accept the concessions instead of going into chapter 11 bankruptsy. I have a bottle of wine, Spatlese actually, with my name on it that needs drinking. Its been a tough 2 days.

Dave

Aaaaahhhh, nothing like a bottle of German Riesling, my favorite wine. I usually drink Kabinett (dry), but a botle of Spatlese (off-dry) is great with the right meal.

I'm drawing up a design for a compressor that I thing will solve all the problems we have thought of for this tool. Should be rather easy to mill and drill for anyone who has a milling/lathe machine in his garage. hint hint

I'll try to finish it up. Post it here and get everyones input.

Dave

good morning

i just finished a cad drawing of the plate design i've been thinking about. I've converted it to a corel draw 8 and it printed fine but i've yet to get it to a bit map type image so i can post it direct. my website isn't complete so i can't anchor it there yet. if you want to see a copy PM me your fax number and i will send it asap.

or if you can see dfx files i can send that format!!

well it won't accept HTML so i'll try another format. i also have it in PDF acrobat format.

i can't get it converted to jpeg, bitmap or gif so let me know if you want a copy.

to dave: can you confirm to me the dimensions for the springs front and rear if you have them on the 123
tks
craig

Craig I will get you the dimensions tomorrow, Saturday
I will get them for the 123 and 107. Do you need the 126?
Dave

Craig
I will get you the dimensions saturday.
Do you need the 107 and 126 as well as the 123?
Dave

Guys
This is a rough sketch of the coil spring compressor ideas that I had.
Everyone please feel free to critique the design.
The guys with the metal machines . Let me know which is easiest to build.
Those experienced with metal. How would the welding effect the strength of the Grade 8 bolt in design number 2 of the bolt.

The most difficult part of designing the compressor is getting the lower plate around the bolt and having it lock in place some how. Sir Tools and Klann have a good design.

The dimensions of the plate, bolt and grooves to hold the spring will have to be finalized. The bolt will be a grade 8 bolt of 18" or so. I can have it cut here in the DFW area. The plate lenght and width will be a size that hopefully will allow it to be used on all the Mercedes bodies that the Sir Tool can be used on.

This will require dimensions from springs of the 123,107,126,124,etc.etc.
The dimension needed will be the maximum diameter of the coil spring, front and rear suspensions. The diameter of the coil, and the dimension from center of the coil to the center of the opposite side coil. This can actually be calculated with the first two dimensions.

I am also hoping we can design the plates to handle both the front and rear spring sizes.

The sketch.

The plate has a hole that is off center, hole A. This is to allow the bolt head to be passed through the plate. You drop the bolt down in hole A so that notch B on the bolt aligns with slot B on the plate. You slide the bolt all the way over to the middle hole C in the plate. Then you raise the bolt untill the head of the bolt rests against the plate bottom. Notch B on the bolt will now be above the plate and the C section of the bolt will be in hole C in the plate. Since the bolt C section is larger than slot B the bolt can not slide back to hole A.
This concept was used on both bolts. We won't have to worry about the bolt coming out of the plate.
Now to prevent the bolt from rotating I have design 1 and design 2. the top bolt design, 1, uses a recieving shape that will be milled into the bottom of the plate. This design will allow the bolt head to rest 1/8 of an inch into the plate. Because the recess is the shape of the bolt head it will not allow the bolt to rotate. This is how Sir tool does it. Look at the pictures of the Sir Tool plates above.
However this does remove material from the plate which does weaken it. A balance has to be obtained here.
Design 2, the lower one. Uses a cog to hold the bolt still. The cog is just smaller the than slot B ( We want these units to slide and move). When inserting the bolt to the plate you lower the bolt head through hole A. With the cog sliding through slot B. Lower the bolt head so that cut B on the bolt can slide through slot B on the plate to the center hole. Once you have the bolt in the center hole, C you rotate the bolt 180 degrees so that when you pull the bolt up to set the bolt head against the plate, the cog slides into slot B on the plate. This will prevent the bolt from rotating while compressing the spring.
The concern with this design. The cog must be cut, not a real problem. But then welded to the bolt. I 'm not sure about the effects of the welding heat on the grade 8 bolt?

Well, did I confuse you?????

What do you think. If I had a milling/lathe machine I would build this.

What size bolt do you recommend for this kind of force?
That will determine the size of the A plate hole. Which may determine strength. As well as spring size adaptability. I was hoping to be able to do all sizes with 2 plate.

The arcs on the plates will be 1/8th inches deep. This should hold the spring compressor in the "center". The size of the groove will be determined by the variations in outer/inner diameter of the springs from the different body styles.

One other consept. Instead of having a bolt head shape. We could cut the bolt head down to the same size as the bolt shaft. it would have a inverted T shape. Then the round A hole ( don't take it personally) would be a rectangular slot. It would be an extension of the B slot. you would slide the "bolt head" down through the elongated B slot. Rotate the bolt 90 degrees and the the bottom of the plate would have a cut out like the on for design 1, the top bolt, but it would be rectangular.
This design, I worry about the strength of whats left of the bolt head.

I will discuss the top plate in the next post

Dave

Ok
The top plate is relatively easy compared to the bottom. As you see it is a 3/8 metal plate with the same groove milled into it that will be done to the bottom plate. The size has to be determined,
The center hole will be the same size a the A hole ( again don't take it personally) so the bolt head can slip through the top plate as you are assembling the coil spring compressor.
If you look at the side diagram, this is how I think the top bolt should be shaped.
Because the bolt shaft will be smaller than the opening A. I was thinking of a "centering " system so the threads of the bolt are not damaged while compressing the spring. If not held in the center of the A hole ( oh never mind) then they could be damaged.
The nut needs to have a large amount of threads gripping the threads of the bolt. To little threads holding the nut and bolt together means the unit flys apart.
This is what caused the Alaska Airlines MD-80 crash off the California coast. Lack of grease on the screw and the crew kept forcing the trim system to work. They wore down the treads and the aerodynamic forces on the screw stripped the nut off the bolt and the T tail came off the aircraft with it.
I digress!!
I would consider a 2-3 inch long coupling nut if we can get it out of Grade 8.
To center the bolt shaft in the hole. A washer could be cut with a tube that will go down the A hole. This will center the bolt shaft and with enough grease we should be ok. If the nut is large enough it could be turned on a lathe so the bottom of the nut fit into the A hole and a washer would add more surface for tightneing. The washer could only be 1 5/8 " max to allow the washer to fit in the 123 spring perch hole. Unless another car had a spring perch hole that was smaller.
The washer assembly could be welded to the nut.

One last tool. To get to the top tightening nut I designed a tool that would allow you to use a rachet, not a impact wrench, to much force.
Either use a plumbers tube. They make long tubes for plumbers that are hollow and have certain size "sockets" stamped into the ends of the tube. We would have to find the right size and lenght.
Or you take some square or round steel stock that has a inner diameter larger than the bolt shaft diameter. Weld a socket on one end and a bolt on the other. Make sure its long enough so the bolt shaft doesn't reach the top bolt. The top bolts will be used to apply your rachet to tighten or loosen the coil spring. The socket will have to be cut to allow the bolt shaft to continue through it.

Well critique away.

Dave

Request to members in Germany - Klann spring compressor
 

Thomas,

Sorry, I'm a bit late :-)

Klann is expencive, even in Germany. If I remember right, the normal price for the spring compressor is at 600 Euro / USD including value added tax.

May be we can save the vat because the parts are for export. But you have to add freight and customs. We are not going to label a parcel containing 10 or more spring compressors as a "gift". :-)

If you are still interested in a "Parcel from Germany" (so far no one jumped on and asked for a Klann in this thread), send me an email and I will ask for the price next week.

I have an american friend here in Berlin so payment via an US bank may be possible. My german bank will charge me 10-15 Euro / USD for a foreign check, but if you are willing to pay some hundred USD for the compressor I think you will pay the bank fees as well.

best regards,
bis denn,
Christian

I was working on a ML430 problem Thursday and bought a day on the tech site www.startekinfo.com I printed a bunch of info and then decided I would look at all the service bulletins for that vehicle.

The list of bulletins was over 400 but they included numerous general topic or interest bulletins. There is a bulletin that decribes every version of the two types of spring compressor MB uses. My crude version is a similar to the tool 107 589 xx xx xx (don't remember the whole number). This tool is much like the one being drawn here. It might be valuable to look at the pictures to see how MB made the plate pivotable.

The Klann tool which is totally different is a tool with number like 202 589 xx xx xx. There are also different plate sizes with MB part numbers. There is also a chart that shows which combo works front and rear of every chassis. I printed a copy of this bulletin, as I was going to see what the price of these tools were from MB. It s surprizing sometimes how much cheaper they will be from MB.

Dimensions
 

dave

yes i could use all those dimensions. i also have a 1972 350 sl.

as for trying to fit all the sizes to one set of plates the answer is yes you can. however... you would need to put all the spring dimensions in matrix and then lay them out with the largest being the od measurement and the smallest being the id measurement. as for the channel i am assuming a bit of a spread from big od to small id. this will require the spring channel to be wide enough for all of them to sit within the channel. not knowing yet what those dimensions will be i could see a possible problem do to the upper and lower plates shifting to one side as you start to compress the spring. this could be a problem as steve has pointed out about the slipping or shifting without a channel for the springs to sit in. i may be getting anal because we haven't even looked at the dim as yet.

thanks for all your input.
craig

steve

my design uses a pivoting point at the top. once inserted and turned 90 degrees to lock it in place the plate can rock left to right on the round shoulders of the rocking top plate.

tks
craig

i'm trying to post but i've been unsuccessful in getting the drawing converted to a jpg, gif or bmp form. i do have it in pdf format.

123 coil spring dimensions

Front Coil Spring

A. 116mm outside diameter
B. 16 mm coil spring diameter
C. 100mm center of coil spring to center of coil spring
D. distance vertically coil spring to coil spring 20mm distance to
put a plate into the spring UNLOADED
E. distance coil to coil LOADED 10-12mm depending on the position you insert it. installed in car with the car on jackstands.
F. Distance between plates to install coil spring 280-290MM
G. Distance between plate to remove coil spring 240mm
H. Overall lenght unloaded 455mm
I did find that the replacment coil springs were longer unloaded.
I. Inner diameter 85 mm


Rear Coil Springs

A. 135mm
B. 15mm coil spring diameter
C. 120mm center of coil spring to center of coil spring
D. Distance vertically coil spring to coil spring 38mm unloaded
E. distance coil to coil loaded 25mm average.
F. distance between plate to install 220mm-230mm
G. distance between plate to remove coil 200mm. more if you disconnect the subframe bushing
H. overall length unloaded 450mm
I. inner diameter 105mm

hole at top of front spring perch 44mm


Dave


107 coil spring. I have been under the SL looking at the coil spring layout. The Sl has a front subframe assembly which requires removal of the subframe to work on it. You have to have an engine hoist to hold the engine when you drop the subframe. The Sir Tool and I'm sure anything we design will probably work but working on this front end will require some thought.

Craig
keeping the plate centered. Ithought about this yesterday. Either cut large grooves as the Sir tool does OR cut a plate as I have in my diagram. The inner and outer diameter of the groove will be the smalles to the largest so that the plates could work on all the springs.
To keep the plate centered you cut a round plate 3/8 inch round. In the round plate you would place a large offset hole and a a smaller center hole. The outer diameter of the plate is the inner diameter of the small spring. As you install the bolt you first go through the round plate and center the bolt shaft as you would in the bottom plate then install the bolt into the bottom plate. Because the round plate is held in the center by the same mechanism that is holding the bottom plate. And the round plate is above the bottom plate, resting on the bottom plate. This centering plate will prevent the bottom plate from shifting.
Just an idea. It could be y the time you build the centering plate you could build 4 plate as Sir tool does.

On the 123 coil spring the difference between front and rear outer diameter is about 3/4 inches. Not much.
The large Sir tool plate for the rear springs was not a snug fit it did have some slop to it.

Dave