86 2.3-16 timing chain?
 

I started to hear some rattling noise from the engine and when I raise the engine RPM the rattle will go away. It sounds like the timing chain is hitting against the timing chain cover. I'm a little afraid to drive it now because I heard it may take out the engine if the chain break loose.
I'm thinking about replacing the chain, but while I'm at it what else should I replace with it?? And what are things that I should take precaution? Any inputs would be greatly appreciated.

Alex

What's the mileage on your car? Normally the timing chain should be replaced every 90-100k miles or so.

As far as what else should be replaced: the timing chain tesioner and guides. most important is the tensioner as there is a known design flaw with the original part in earlier models. The oroginal tensioner uses oil pressure to maintain tension on the chain, however, when the engine is off, there is no oil pressure. Initially this isn't an issue, however as the chain begins to stretch the tesnioner must do more. With zero oil pressure, however, it relaxes and allows the slack back into the timing chain.

Updated versins of the tensioner resolve the issue via the use of a ratchet inside the tensioner to maintain tension on the timing chain even with zero oil pressure.

although there is a known issue with the tensioners in the 2.3-16, the larger issue is that your timing chain has stretched and will need to be replaced. procrastinating on this could allow the chain to jump on the cam sprockets thereby altering the timing with disasterous results - namely contact between the piston and the valves.

The cause of all of this is the longer timing chain needed for the twincam. The extra length results in poor lubrication of the timing chain at the exhaust cam sprocket. There IS a DIY fix to deal with this and extend the life of the timing chain. you would have to drill a couple of holes into the #1 exhaust cam bearing cap creating an oil journal wich would spray a jet of oil onto the exhaust cam sprocket. centrifugal force should carry the oil to the chain ensuring that is stays well lubricated.

Of course, you could also change the sprockets and chain to a duples instead of the single, but this is a pretty expensive proposition.

Thank you for the response
 

This car has 200kmiles on it. According to the original owner he had the timing chain replaced at 110k miles, so I guess it is due for replacement.
As fas as the tensioner is concern I don't know if it has the latest design one or not, I'll soon find out.
I ordered a timing chain and tensioner from Fastlane, I got the parts yesterday and the tensioner looks like a long piece of guide rail about 12 inches long, this sure doesn't look like a tensioner to me but what do I know I haven't a clue.
I'm going to read the manual hopefully it has good instructions. I will find out after this weekend.
Thank you for your help
Alex

hey Alex

I would say there is two ways of doing it .
One ,pop the valve cover off and die grind the chain off, turn the engine over by hand ,and pull it out with the new chain conected and replace the top rail, or...
the way Medcedes wants to with taking everything apart like the manual says, this way is a must if you have to replace
the tensioner rail or any others down there, make sure not to
forget the timing cover gasket part number 102 015 00 80,
or the orange loctite 573 for the seal on porsche engines would
good too

thanks Davect
 

Hi Dave,

What the Locktite for?? is it for the timing cover gasket? By the way thanks for the part number there. Looks like I am going to call the dealer and see if they can get me this gasket.

Do you have any trick for installing the new chain? Do I need some type of tool? And can I rent this tool some where?
I noticed that the new chain came from Fastlane is not connected together like a circle this mean I have to connect together, which will require some type of tooling which I have no idea how to get them.
Once again thank you all
Alex

Alex

The loctite 574 is for metel to metel gasket for high heat and oil
It can be used instead of the gasket, works the best hands down,
For the chain press tool you can get one from
harbor freight tool, or maybe sears , i know performance products
has one in there catlog is like 200 bucks, and they do rent it
for alittle more but you get it back, i guess lol.
good luck
Dave

86 190e 16v

Alex,

Do yourself a favor and drain the engine oil. Look for any bits of plastic rails, both in the drain pan and in the oil pan with a flash light. If your chain has been loose for a while, its probably managed to break the plastic chain guides. They get brittle over time.

IF your lucky and you find no pieces, you can proceed with a simple swap of the chain. The long plastic guide they sent you is pressed by the tensioner against the chain.

IF you find pieces............prepare for some serious work. You will have to dismantle the front cover and oil pan to replace all the guides. It is the biggest pain in the arss!!!!!!!!! THE ABSOLUTE worst car I have ever worked on!! If those guides are broken, it means the chain is rubbing against the metal pins that support the guides. When these get cut through by the chain, they could get injested by the oil pump and cause engine failure. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?threadid=8117

I ve been there and replaced mine.

You don`t need a special tool to crimp the new chain. You can simply use a punch and or a ball pin hammer to lock the link.

GOOD LUCK.

Tinker

I will be doing the same thing on my 2.3 in the upcoming few weeks. I need to do this because the tensioner blade has one of the edges broken off and it causes the engine to whine constantly, it's not a plesant sound. I'm also thinking about putting in a new chain at the same time, but once I have the rails and all other plastic guids intact, I can do it without pulling off the timing cover.

xp

They don't make it any harder
 

Gentlemen,

I finally gather all my confidence and started to dismantle any thing in the way to get to the timing chain cover. What a pain job it is so far.
How do you remove the crank shaft pulley?? Any one has some trick? I don't want to move my TDC if you all know what I mean.
One other question is since my car has 200k miles, and I noticed some blowby and oil is being collected at the air filter housing. I would like to fix this problem while the engine is half off already. Can someone point me some directions how to stop blow-by problem?? Is it rings? a valve seal kit will do the trick??
Thank you in advance.
Alex

Alex,

With 200k, I would expect some blowby. Do a compression and/or a leak down test to see how your numbers compare to the factory specs.

Some oil in the air filter housing is normal.

You`ll need an air wrench to get that crank shaft nut off.

I remember was a PITA it was removing the bolts that hold down the oil cooler lines that cover the bolts that hold the bracket that supports the power steering pump and covers the front timing cover. Don`t think I am kidding. AND you can not remove the front timing cover without removing the oil pan as the oil pickup tube needs to be removed so the front cover can come out!

I figured the next time I would pull the whole motor and save a few hours of my time.

GOOD LUCK!!!

Tinker

You are not kidding!
 

Hey Tinker,

I know what you mean about that bolt where the stupit cooling lines are. I've been putting it off for a few days now and thinking about getting an impact wrench and an air compressor but don't know how to convince my other yet.
I may just putting off the head work for now just try to replace the timing chain, guides and tensioner.
So how did you finally remove the the bolt? As for the crank shaft pulley nut, I may try to use the starter to crack it loose while wedge a socket to the nut against the ground.
Thanks for the response
Alex

Alex,

You need to remove the bolts that hold the oil cooler lines in place so you can get to that bolt. You just need to move the lines out of the way, not remove them. The oil cooler lines are held down by hex cap bolts. BUT, there is no room to get a wrench in there. I ended up cutting a one inch straight piece off an allen wrench and using that with a small 7mm or 8mm box wrench to turn those bolts an eighth of a turn a time to get them off. It took me quite some time. My wife had never seen me that pissed off. I was LIVID. Once the lines are free, use a swival with a long extension to get to the bolt. All else fails, you could pull the intake off of the car to get at these bolts, but that is also an involved job. BTDT.

You can still test the compression and leak down as it is right now. It would be a shame to tear it most of the way down and have to do it again for the head. That front cover will have to come off again if the head needs rebuilding.

Tinker

P.S. Check out this thread:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?threadid=8249

They don't make it any harder
 

Hey Tinker,

Thank you for the tip of getting at the bolt, it sounds very painful but I guess there's no other way right now.
May be I will take your advise to do a compression test just to satisfy my curiosity however sometimes I really don't want to know the truce.
For the leak down test I haven't a clue. How do you do this and for what purpose? Please explain.
There were times that I wanted to get rid of this car and get me a newer M3 or GS400 so bad, but I have pumped in over $2000 in the past 6 months so I kinded got stuck with it.
Right if someone give me $2000 they can have the car as it.... I'm really tired of it.
Hey Tinker maybe you want to tink with it what do ya say??
Alex

hey Alex

I don't think there is any end to the parts th 16v needs
I have replaced almost everything, I have a new car after I paint it
lol
Hey Im in CT too I would like to take a look at it, I drive a 16v has a everyday driver and my buddy just crashed his 16v and we need more parts
thanks
Dave

Alex,

I swear most of us 16V owners think alike. I too would love to have a GS400 and was keeping an eye out for good used one. But at $25k+ for a decent one with lower mileage, the price of admission is a bit step. There was another member on this board a year or so back who sold his 16V and traded up to a higher mileage GS400 and loved it. They are great cars, but cetainly don`t handle like a 16V. The 16V`s out there are all getting older and need more and more maintenance. There is something to be said about those bullit proof Japanese products. My problem with the GS400`s is I see one on every corner. The 16V`s are pretty rare.

A compression test is fine. But a leak down test can isolate where the problem is. You need a compressor. Put the cylinder at TDC and pressurize the cylinder at a set rate, usually around 100 psi. The guage will tell you how much air your losing. Anything over 10% is usually cause for concern. You listen to where the air is escaping, oil cap = worn rings, muffler or intake = valves. Make sure your valves are correctly adjusted.

If I were you I would just take a compression reading and if they are in spec, around 180 psi?, then just fix the current problem and run it or sell it.

For $2k I would consider, but you`re on the other side of the country. Don`t get discouraged. I know I felt like throwing in the towel a few times on mine. But I look at it as a learning experience. And from this board I have learned alot. And as Dave said, I too have replaced and taken apart almost every part on this dang car.

What else can you buy for your money that is as fun to drive and safe?

Tinker

Tinker you have changed my mind
 

Hey Tinker,

Tinker, You've really changed my mind about given it up on this car. You're absolutely right about the performance and how rare of this 16V. I bought this car from an original owner when it has 114K miles in 1995. All and all, it has given me so much fun and pround. I guess we all tend to take the hard time too harsh, and inadvertedly forget the good time that we had.

Anyway, this weekend my goal is to swap out the timing chain and rail and tensioner.

Do you think I can rent the leak down test equipment at an autopart place? I don't have an air compressor.

As you know the timing cover is between the head and the oil pan. How do I go about the head gasket and the oil pan gasket?? I hope I don't destroy the head gasket and the oil pan gasket while removing the timing cover!!!

Thank you for the explaination to the purpose of the leak down test, I really appreciated that.

Hey DaveCt, I've got my courage back and will try to get this car back on the road. Thank you for your interest in the car. Where about are you in Ct? I'm in Danbury. We should get together for a ralley sometimes this Summer.

Alex

hey Alex

I would forget the leak down test if you don't have a compressor or the gauges, Do a compression test and that will tell you if there is a bad problem , they are like 20 bucks at a autozone type of place,

Be real careful you don't wreck the head gasket, the head will have to come off for that fix, and if the head is off and the oil pan dropeed, your more then half way to a full rebuild,
I have been looking for a spent 16v engine for some time now,
I want to rebuild it with some cossworth or JE high compresion pistons , Just don't want to rebuild mine engine yet, to much fun driving her everyday , maybe in a few mo. when the 911 is done,
Good luck and keep us posted!!
Dave

p.s im in woodstock in the woods with long twisty roads
and no cops=no tickets

Timing cover stuck hard!!! Help
 

Gentlemen,

Finally, I got the A/C bracket off, and also the harmonic balancer and crank shaft pulley off. I got the nut to loose by using a 27mm socket, a breaker bar supported by a jack stand then carefulley using the starter to turn the engine over little bitty at a time.

I then removed all of the bolts that I think has to do with the timing cover. But the dame cover is stuck there hard and I mean it. I even using a sliding hammer puller but to no avail.

What is going on guys??? Am I missing some thing here? The dawn thing is stuck there good. This sliding hammer puller is a very good size, I used this to pull axels off of lots of cars.

I also broke the Pulse generator. What is the main function of this Pulse generator do?? Can I still drive the car without it?

Please help...

Alex

Alex,

You DID remove the oil pan and disconnect the oil pickup tube that is attached to the main bearing cap and the front cover??????????

Tinker

Hey Tinker,

Glad to hear from you. No I did Not. So, you're telling me the oil pan and oil pick up must be disconnected!! What a pain, Oh my ... But thank you Tinker, no wonder why the cover didn't budge.

So where do you jack the engine to get some clearance for the oil pan to come out? What do you have to disconnect besides the engine mounts???

Any one know what is the function of the Pulse generator? I broke it while try to disconnect it.

Hey Tinker thanks again.

Alex

Alex,

Are you working on the Enterprise? What the heck is a pulse generator???

You SHOULD use/rent a engine hoist to lift the motor. Read the post from the short cut I previously posted. You get it as high as it will go (until the trans hits the tunnel) and then wedge wood between the motor mounts and frame, as Benzmac suggested, to hold it up. I rented the hoist to get mine up, but used a jack and several pieces of wood on the aluminum oil pan to lower it (quickly). If you raise it by the pan, you rick cracking or damaging the pan $$$$$$$.

I could not get the pickup tube off without removing the pan, but another member got his off without removing the pan. Try as hard as you can to get it off without removing your pan. I would strongly recommend that you replace the pan gasket and use the MB sealant for the chain cover. The head gasket will be fine as it only seals the top of the timing cover. Just be gentle with it.

Tinker

Hey Tinker,

I'm not working the Enterprise but worse than that a 16V. I got the name from the Mercedes book that I used to remove the timing chain cover. The Pulse generator is the black looking sensor about 1.5" sits on the timing chain cover about 2 o'clock if you look at the crank shaft pulley. I think its function is like an RPM sensor every time the harmonic balancer complete a revolution. But the other end of this thing is connected to a plug that looks to me like a diagnostic plug???

I'm going to try see if I can use some jack if not I just rent a hoist like you said. The manual from Mercedes is terrible it nevers mention to remove the oil pan and I thought the reason you guys had to remove the oil pan because you had to fish out the guide rail debris!!!

Thanks again Tinker.

Alex

That pulse thingy is the magnetic sensor that is used for ignition timing. Kind of important. Its cheap, less than $25 from the dealer if I remember correctly. Without it your car won`t run/fire.

Tinker

Hey Tinker,

Finally got the new timing chain installed this past weekend. It was a painful job. I had to use an engine hoist to get some clearance order to remove the oil pan.

I know what you mean about the oil dipstick tube. I cut it with a hex saw so I can remove the oil pan. My question now is what would be bad if the dipstick tube is 4" shorter. Can I just leave it alone 4" short like that?? I didn't want to go thru the pain of replacing it if I can get away with it.

So please anyone... Can I get away with this? I need all your advices.

Alex

Alex,

I don`t know if it would be a problem.

The tube is not expensive, why not just knock it out and replace? If you do replace it, throw the new tube in the freezer and heat that part of the block with a torch before you install it. The tube is fragile and I couldn`t get mine to install at the same level as the old one. Off by an inch.

Tinker

Hey Tinker,

I don't want to replace it not because it would cause me $20 but the pain of getting it out and putting a new one in, and then end up an inch higher, this could cause a problem when checking oil.

I'm just gonna leave it, I don't see that it is going effect the performances of the engine or neither the oil pressure unless someone tell me so. Tinker, thank you for the response. I will let you know in a week or two.

Alex

wow...
 

Amazing thread you guys, please keep us updated...


Dan

Job all done but...
 

Gentlemen,

After endless hours. For ta first time DIYer like me on a 16v. She is back together in one piece, runs, and best of all no leaks!

I've learned so much, sometimes the hard way, but all and all my confidence has shot up big time. Thank to you all, especially TINKER, you stuck with me even when I was ready to throw in that tower.

Although the car now runs and functions but it is really rough, oscillating, and especially a pronounced ticking, or tapping of the valves? I really concern about this loud ticking noise.

For the rough idle and engine searches could be a various things like our famous OVP, Mass flow sensor, idle control valve, vacuum leak,.... Just to name a few. I can work on this later.

What concern me the most right now is the loud ticking and it seems to tick at all engine RPM. I was thinking may be TDC is off mechanically wise. The reason I said this because the chain sliped on me ( never rotate the crank without the tensioner in place) while I was trying to manually rotate the crank shaft. I then try to put the cam sprockets back to TDC in relative to the crank shaft by ways of aligning the sprockets bores opposite each other and measure the valve clearance. The valve clearance are in spec. But, I'm still skeptical about the cam sprockets bores opposite each other this method is too coarse, and easily exceeds the 4-5 degrees spec.

My bigest question to you is what other ways can I put the cam shafts back to truth TDC other than aligning the sprockets bores (holes) opposite each other.

Thank you for your time.
Alex

Alex,

Running rough is not a good sign.

There no real percise way to time those motors unless you want to go crazy with a degree wheel. It's amazing to me that you simply line up the dots on the cams and the crank pulley and off you go.

That said, your timing might be off a bit, but from my understanding there is not much room for error. Pull the valve cover and check the alignment of the cams and crank markers. Is everything still lined up??? You didn't rotate the motor at all with the chain and cams unhooked??? It is possible to damage a valve by doing that if you encountered some resistance and continued. Does it smooth out once off idle? Rotate the motor with the valve cover off and watch the chain. Any high marks or strange shiney wear marks? You crimped the chain correctly? Mine also makes a strange tapping noise occasionally.

If everything lines up, do a leak down or compression check to insure the cylinders are sealing. Check the plugs when they are out. Is one of them wet??

If it passes these tests I would look for vacuum leaks. I read that Benz recommends replacing all sprockets on the higher mileage motors if they show signs of wear. I would bet your are ok, but it is something else to look at.

Just my free $0.02.

Tinker

I screwd it up big time
 

Hi Tinker,

Remember the ticking noise I was talking about. Turned out the intake cam shaft was off by one gear tooth. No more ticking and the car is very reponsive for a 200K miles, nice and smoth accelleration.

However, because the car had rough idle so I order a OVP and got it today, put this OVP in but didn't help. Engine like to stall out at idle. I then attemped to adjust the idle mixture screw. And sure enough I did screwed it up big time. The dawn car is not even start any more, I'm totally lost. I know, I know, I shouldn't have mess with, but it is too late, I've done it man.

I'm thinking about having it tow to the dealer to have reset and re-adjust. But I hate to have my wallet hanging out like this for the dealer to suck it up.

Would you happen to have a procedure or some trick ways to help me get back to where I was. I don't have an oscillescope to measure duty cycle and sinewave but I have a volt meter!!!

I'm bumming.
Please, I need your two cents.

Alex

hey Alex

I am in the same boat, after trying new potoentiometer and experimenting with mitures with the EHA on/off, I would also like to know what the factory specs should be, one morning after messing with the mixture I couldn't get it started either, I needed to get a visual of my buddies 16v flow plate to get it to start agian,, and I just can't find the spot where it was originally at.
thanks

Alex,

I hope that ticking noise wasn't a valve kissing a piston??? If it didn't idle right after you corrected the intake cam, I would recommend a compression or leakdown test. You need to check if you damaged anything.

If you nicked or bent a valve you can forget about it idling right. It will run fine off idle, but it won't want to idle.

Dave,

The factory specifies a 0 EHA ma reading and 50% duty cycle reading. A negative ma reading from the EHA represents a rich running condition and a positive means lean. As you lean and richen the duty cycle will jump around. Stevebfl recommends a slightly rich reading (mid 40's duty cycle) for best performance.
My reading for some reason are the exact inverse of what they should be. Go figure. BTW I believe my pot (wow man I'm so stoned) is bad but I have managed to mask its behavior by disconnecting the throttle position sensor. But that's a whole nother topic.

Tinker

Still Bumming
 

Hey Tinker,

I hope so too, but let me ask you this, can a valve still kissing the piston even the Valve clearance was in spec????

I did not do a pre-compression test before I changed out the timing chain so I didn't know what they were. However, post timing chain replacement, the number two cylinder is low only 100psi while the rest are in 165-170psi. Is this why it won't hold idle at all? it runs real good, smooth accellaration, it hasn't been this good in a while, except for the idling.

As you know right now the car is dead in my driveway and so does Davect. I have never done this part of adjusting the duty cycle on this car, I need some test points and what plug and so on. Though, I'm not a stranger to sinewaves and duty cycles from work, we have lots of robots that used Gallil stepper motor control with encoder signal amplifier.

How do I get back to nominal position and that is my problem right now. I hate to bring it to the dealer and before you know it, they'll tell me I need a whole new mass flow sensor this will be ouch chihoahoa!!!!

Hey Dave! Good luck with your car and please let us know how you will make out. Let me know if you want to go boating on Candlewood lake sometime this Summer.

Alex

Alex,

It doesn't matter if the valve clearance was correct. The relationship of the valve timing to the piston was altered when you misadjusted the intake cam.

Pressure test the cylinder and post results.

Tinker

Hey Tinker,


Never done a leak down or pressure down test before. I don't even know what it needs to perform this test. I did a compression test and as I stated before that cylinder number two is low and out of spec.

I'm in the middle of moving, and you know it is very hectic. I can't spend too much time on this car, I need to pack the kids and wife, buy a house, and sell a house, and lots of other fun stuff.

I order a new Bosch potentiometer for the air mass sensor and will give it a shot before I have it tow to the dealer. Any one have some advice for what nominal resistance for me to set before I install the pot???

Thank you
Alex

Alex,

you can't get the 16v to start at all???, did you turn the mixture screw too many times, or have the pot off?
I have been messin with the pot on the 16v , and also srcewing with the mixture, I finally droped the dime and got the hugh MB service manual, It make it alot easier to figure things out,
Engine 102.983(86 16v ...(87 might be differnt theres a whole differnt section for it)) testing A/F sensor,accel enrichment,
multimeter on mA, 20degC
discontect O2, start engine, test EHA nominal value 5-15mA Increase engine speed quickly ,current should increase,,, if so.. end of test, lol
if not stop engine
airflow plate must be deflected see if it has pressure before lower edge of the cylindrical part off the air funnel, if not adjust mixture screw/or bad distributer
testing the pot terminal 3 and 1: approx 5v
terminal 2 and 1 :0.2-0.5v if ok
slowly defect plate ,voltage should increase continously to 5 volts
if not replace the A/F unit.

I found my first start stalls seems to be the NEW coolant temp sensor, I installed last summer, manual states +20C =2.2-2.8kohm (mine 3.1k)
0C=5.5-6.1k ohm(mine 6.2) everything else checks out to the book.
Hope this helps

Dave

Hi Dave,

My car is an 86. At the moment it doesn't want to start at all whatsoever. Yes, indeed I turned the mixture screw too many time. The Mixture screw feels very weird now, what I mean is when I depress the screw and when turn I don't feel it is engaged any more, it feels like I had broken a gear or something.

I like the procedure you wrote very nice and short, except that I don't know the test points to measure the EHA reading. I understand that the meter has to be in mA, but where are the test points, could you please write these test points down for me.
And also when you say deflect the plate do you mean press down on the throttle flappy thing?? Sorry to ask dumb questions but I have to make sure.

Please response if you can. So, did you get your car back on the road yet? Thank you and I'll talk to you soon.
Alex

alex the Eha test point is on the fuel distributor, black box 2x3in
with two wires , pull it off and put it back on 3/4 of the way so you can get the meter pins on it,
follow the pot wire ,it has a harrness a few iches away follow the wires, and pry off the top cap, and leave it hooked up so you can measure it from above it,
the the throttle plate has to have pressure on it before it moves past the bottom of the tube, or it will NEVER start, if you can not feel pressure when turn the mixture screw it is broke you need a whole new A/F sensor or at least a new mixture screw. I have a a/f sensor if you need it.

Ya my 16v was down one morning when I was playing around with the mixture screw and running around the block to see differnt driving styles, I lost count of turns forward and back and the plate was out of wack. luckly I got to check out my buddys to feel where the pressure was on the airflow plate and turned the mixture screw to the point and it fired right up, I decided to get the manuals before a new a/f sensor and it seems to be within spec, I need to go and get duty reader from sears this week there is a hugh section on duty.

Thanks Dave,

I'm glad to hear that you 've got your car running again. I think, I 'm going to Sear to get me a duty cycle reader also.

That's great that you have a whole A/F ass'y. But my problem right now I may just need the mixture screw only, I read in one of the thread that dealer do carry this item. I want to take the mixture screw ass'y out to take a look but it doesn't seem that simple. Do I have to take the whole top of the A/F ass'y off to gain access to the screw underneath?? Man! nothing is easy on this car....

Where do you get your 16V manual? I think I need one badly.

Once again Dave, thank you for all your help, I may contact you for your A/F. Have a nice day.
Alex

hey Alex

The mixture screw is like 10 bucks at carriage house NL, but I bet Phil at mercedesshop will get it to you cheaper, I know you will have to die-grind the mixture rivets out and Im not sure how the new one bolts up? make sure there is no leaks,
I got the my manuals off of ebay used for 120, for the engine
102 and chassis,(stacked on top of each other is 6-7 inchs of reading) they have extra chapters just for the differnet
16v's , Ask the dealer for the shop book thay have them there

hope this helps
Dave

Alex,

Why don't you humor me and run a compression test and see if the numbers are the same as before? If they are and it ran before you fiddled with the mixture screw, then you can look to other sources for your problem(s).

Be aware that there is probably less than 1/3 of a turn on that mixture screw between way too lean and way too rich.

Tinker

Thanks for the info there Dave. I'm hoping that all I need is the mixture screw not the whole A/F ass'y. I haven't gotten around to work on my car lately. I will go to the dealer to get me a mixture screw tomorrow.

Tinker, I did not do a compression test before the timing chain replacement. After timing chain replaced, the engine ran but I heard some tickings noise that I didn't like. I then opened up the valve cover and checked the cam shafts position against the crank shaft and this was how I found out that the intake cam shaft was off by a gear tooth. I corrected the intake cam shaft, took it for a test drive, she ran beautifully except for the idle, it stalled out at idle all the time. This was when I decided to mess with the mixture screw, I screwd it up royally, it can't even start it up, I also did broke something in there, I can no longer have any resistance when I move the screw.

Have you ever replaced this mixture screw? do I have to take the whole A/F off or I can just replace it by itself?

I did do a compression test and here is the order 1= 160psi; 2=110psi; 3=165psi; 4=165psi.

Cylinder number 2 is low but for a 200k miles maybe this is expected?

I don't expected to take the head out soon, I just want to get this car start and hold idle, I'm the middle of moving so the car's priority gets low right now.

Thank you for any help.
Alex

Hey Alex,

that # two cylinder doesn't sound so good at 110:(
the pressures should be 145-175psi with no more 15%
differance between the cylinders,

it is time either get a leak down tester, you will need
the special tool about 70-100 bucks, and a compressor, to pressurize the cylinder and measure the leakage, and you can listen to hear where the leaks is( exhaust,intake,oil tubes)
or just take the head off ,and hope there is just a burnt valve

here is a great thread from another CT16v from last year about fixing the head
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?threadid=32357&highlight=16v+head

hope this helps and good luck
please keep us posted Alex

Hi Dave,

Sorry to get back so late, but here is my situation. I'm in the middle of a move out state. I don't have the time right now to do any heavy duty work. I understand that the cylinder number two is not so hot, but from the test drive before I messed up the idle was not so bad that I can deal with it. I will deal with the head once I'm settled to the new place.

I just got a new potentiometer and a new mixture screw. Oh! by the way nothing was harmful neither the A/F or screw, I adjusted so much that it ran out of adjustment, but I'm going to replace the screw any way.

I did use a drill and some easy out tools, I was able to remove the mixture screws today.

Now my questions are where should I put my plate in the funel using the mixture screw??? Should I put it close to the bottom ring, top ring or a 1/16" below the bottom ring??? I have no idea now??? Should I with the key on adjust the mixture screw and monitor some test point for 0.7V?? I forget what test points I should monitor, while adjusting this mixture screw. I also confuse with the EHA test point.

Let me re-iterate this one more time. 1/ How do I adjust the EHA and 2/ How do I adjust the ON/OFF cycle, 3/ How do I adjust the 0.7V. If you can step by step for me on this I would be so damm happy and would kiss a camel any day.

Or to make it less confusion, what I have is a new mixture screw, a new potentiometer, and an unknown plate position. What would you suggest that I should do to head in the right direction.

As always, I owed this site lots of favors.

Alex

Here we go again, got the A/F back on with new pot and new mixture screw. Took Davect advice adjust the mixture screw so the plate has pressure right away as soon as you try to deflect it. I actually put it about a 1/16 of an inch lower, this seems to start better.

The car is running good now and doesn't have any hesitation. However, the idle still bad, can not hold idle at all, if I let go the gas pedal engine will stall.

To temporary solve the idle issue, I had to use the throttle stop screw to increase the rpm to about 1700 RPM at idle, it's embarassing at the stop light, sometimes it goes up to 2500 RPM.
Could this be an idle control valve? how about the magnetic sensor above the crank pulley? how critical is its position, I had to replace this sensor during the timing cover removal.

It is running but sure is not like a mercedes at idle though. Thank you for any advice.

Alex

excellent to hear shes back running agian Alex, But it has to be play in the plate before you feel pressure,
why can't you adjust the mixture so the idle is 1000 RPM, but.. what pot did you put in the 86 I tried # 035 and mine would not idle right either , if you can't make it idle right put back 017 and try agian. check injector hoses for leaks and and that main one from the idle valve to the housing

I still haven't gone to sears to get the duty reader , my duty on the 16v is running rich i can smell it, but has much better top end.

good luck

Good to hear from you Dave,

You're right, the plate is now about 1/8 of an inch before pressure applies this seems to start much better. And I also thought about put the old 017 pot back. I got this 035 from Phill and it is in the A/F right now.

I can't seem to increase the idle RPM with mixture screw at all, and I had gone at least 4 revolutions at 1/4 rev interval on the mixture screw. But I'm happy that she's drivable so I can drive her to the new place.

I can't believe that KE injection system is such a complicated sun of a b.... Sorry but I get aggitated sometimes.

I will look into it some more, I just bought some new injectors see if this help. I will keep you posted.

Alex

My folks bought my 16 v in Germany in 1989, they kept it and never drove it much. in 2000 I bought it from them and since then I have replaced (you might want to sit down, this could take a while)

Condenser
timing chain tensioner ...etc
nito cells and shocks for sls
tie rods (left and right)
drag link
steering arm
front shocks
rebuilt auto trans (that hurt like a mother $$$$$)
steering box rebuilt
front sway bar bushings
new radiator
water pump
belt tensioner

to do list
full exhaust
injectors
valve bucket adj.
win powerball or lotto to pay for 16v upkeep.
convince fiancee that this really is worth it.
get my self to a 12 step program


I love this car. They will pry the steering wheel out of my cold dead hands before I give her up.

Welcome to the club David mash,

You've got it, it is a money pit but some how you got sucked in to do so. I hope it doesn't get to the point either the car or your fiance.

How is your car running? Do you need a timing chain replacement job yet. If you have to do this yourself and still have your fiance after then you are one hell of a guy or we may find your cold hands on the steering wheel of the 16v.

What other car out there that is compatible to the 16v any one know??? I can't thing of one even Mercedes too bad.

Alex

The time chain was replaced 4 years ago. I switched to Mobil 1 and I pop the valve cover ever 15k so check on the chain. So far the sprockets look clean and new. It has about 40k on it with the new chain.

The only car I can think of similar to the 16v is the late model M3's. I thought that is what MB designed the car to compete with anyway. I like the 16v better though. Does not look like a kit car the way the old M3 do. My 16v is my daily driver and I work long hours and live in TX with the nice warm summers so I usually have the work done on my car. I will do the basic stuff likeoil changes, plugs, injectors when t comes time. But I do not have the time nor the inclination to do the more time consuming stuff. Just had the steering box rebuilt. That owuld have been to much of a pain in the ass to do my self.

It runs great now. I need to have the valve buckets chimed and I need a new exhaust. It is rusted out. I am going to get the cat from German star and the res/muff from timevalve this fall. The car is due for inspection in Nov so it will be Oct probably. It's a never ending cycle with that lovely POS. And I say that in the most TLC kind of way.