Guys,
I know this doesnt belong in this particular forum but my friend needs quick advice so i figured i'll give it a shot.
He's interested in either going for a 1987 - 1990 560SEL or a 1992- 1996 S500. Granted there is the difference in purchase price but overlooking that fact, which model would end up with less trips to the service dept and money out of pocket for expensive repairs ? I've heard some stories regarding $3500 just for A/C repairs on the S500. does that hold true for the SEL's as well ? any info would be greatly appreciated. thanks.

top choice is a 1991 560SEL with full records. The early S500's are a lot more to maintain because of more computer gizmos that could go wrong and the dreaded AC evaporator. I am sure others will probably agree with this statement.

I wouldn't decide without trying both, side-by-side if possible. You get plenty in return for the additional cost of an S500. Lighter steering, better handling and warm air from the center vents might be worth the price of admission.

Sixto
95 S420
91 300SE
87 300SEL
83 300SD

go with the S500 for sure........its much better in the handling and has many features.....the 560sel doesnt come with an 11 speaker Bose stereo eitheir!

__________________
99 C43
98 S420
99 C230K
01 C240

A 91 560SEL will have a 10 speaker system but it's still like comparing a payphone to being there

Sixto
95 S420
91 300SE
87 300SDL
83 300SD

I gave my responce to his question in which car would less likely be at the shop. Do you guys really think that an early w140 would be less od a problem than a later w126?

About the speakers.... if you want good quality, I would go aftermarket... not the stock 10 year old stuff. Sure it might be better than a w126 speaker, but its still outdated compared to today's stuff.

The W126 560SEL is a great car. Perfect size. The W140, to me, is like a boat. I can't 'feel' the road like I can the W126. It is too boring in the W140 S500. Will put you to sleep.

The W126 doesn't have all the electronic crap that the W140 has. It doesn't need an evaporator job requiring 40 hours labor(you have to get in through the dash in these cars. A pain in the #$%^!).

Unlike the W140, the W126 electronics will easily last 300K miles, plus. Maybe it's because there's so little to go wrong with it.

The W126 is built just like the first S-Class, the W116. Tank-like build, excellent dependability, and simplicity in everything you work on.

The W140 was about gadgets, gadgets, GADGETS. That's why the W140's are really cheap to buy right now. Too much of an expense.

Plus the W126 looks a lot better to me.. A formidable beast with the foglights gleaming on the highway.

The W140 is not a better handler than the W126. It is too much of a bulk. The W220 S is a different story, though.

Regardless of what we say, the choice is not up to us. These cars must be driven, looked at, and researched properly before final considerations are set.

Good luck,

__________________
1987 300SDL (324000)

1986 Porsche 951 (944 Turbo) (166000)

1978 Porsche 924 (99000)

1996 Nissan Pathfinder R50 (201000)

it is all in the driving and the maintenance.

i have most of the recent classics. a 6.9[50k]. a 1986 560sel[250k]. a 1987 560sec[81k]. a 1995 e320 cab[11k]. and a 1997 s500c[24k].

i like them all. they are different cars. the w140 is quieter, faster, less intimate. i think it outcorners all the others.

all the sound systems are ok if you are concentrating on the driving. what makes the w140's sound better is that the car masks more road noise. i am not sure that this is good thing when it comes to the issue of safe driving and the importance of auditory inputs.

the w126 is more like a lotus sedan. lots of immediacy with the driving environment. it is my favorite benz series. had benz added some additional acoustical isolation they could have manufactured this model for many more years and continued to have the most durable, most user friendly production car on the planet.

all things considered, i would find the lowest mileage, best maintained w126 and acquire it. personally i prefer the pre-1988 versions. no driver side airbag. a real glove box. and a useable center console. however, if you have to take a post-1987 560sel, the parts can be obtained to replace the passenger side airbag with a glovebox. and the damn center box can be removed.

if you are motivated, try to find a one-owner version with full maintenance records and less than 75k miles.

bon chance.

I think the late 50s 220S (W180) was the first S-class. Well it was the first post-war model with an S suffix. At the time, however, there was the 300 sedan (W189) which continues to be a heck of a car and is easily "S'er" than the W180. From the W180 followed the Heckenflosse(sp?) W111 and W112 then the venerable W108 and W109 then the W116. If something went down from the W126 to the W140, it's been going down since the 60s.

I'll concede that the original post had a bias towards cost of ownership. So a W126 is the seemingly obvious choice. However, I feel the W126 is affordable only if you fix it yourself. Having a shop track down the bugs in a W126 ACC system isn't going to be cheap. At the other extreme, there's a lot you can do yourself in a W140 once you get over the intimidation factor. Again, I'm not suggesting that a W140 is even in the same cost ballpark.

As counterpoints to some of what's been said:

- The W126 steering wheel big yet the steering is heavy; it's a matter of preference

- The W140 provides less road feel and external stimulus; it's a matter of preference

- A US spec W126 LWB is ~3" longer than a US spec W140 LWB. A W140 is ~2.5" wider than a W126 but the mirrors fold in for really tight spots. Seems like they're both boats if either is.

- I'm no driving expert (I'm not even good) but I can take curves and esses faster in the S420 than I can in the SE or SDL. All have MXV4+ tires. I also don't get the feeling that the W140 outside side mirror is going to hit the road in sweeping curves. The W126 rolls like there's no tomorrow but keeps its grip. Maybe the leveling suspension of the 560SEL keeps roll in check. Putting a bigger front swaybar on a W126 is a two day affair.

I believe the driver's side airbag became standard for all MBs in 1986. I've never seen a US spec 560SEL without a driver side airbag. Maybe passenger side airbags were standard in all or some years of the 560SEL but they were definitely optional on the rest of the W126 line through 1991 (my 91 300SE and 87 300SDL have a normal glove box and no passenger side airbag).

Benz300, have your friend check out a 500E or E500

Sixto
95 S420
91 300SE
87 300SDL
83 300SD

Thanks everyone !
your replies have been very helpful. And I agree with the fact that ownership of the older SEL's could be cheaper only if one ends up working on it themself. But to my surprise, some service dealerships aren't even accepting cars for service that are more than 10 years old. Mercedes Benz of Morristown NJ declined a couple of customers based upon the fact that they had an 86 model benz. They were referrred to private shops. Is that a common practice else where in other states as well ? while some of us can figure out faulty plugs and perhaps a couple of DIY's here and there, certainly there are jobs best left for the professionals. at that time if the dealers are refusing to service, perhaps an 89SEL, I see that as a potential problem to own an older car. Refusing to service a car older than 10 years seems to be the dealer's choice. Do they have that choice given that they're representing Mercedes ??
thanks for all the responses once again !

The dealer took in my 86, and I have seen a few early 124s in there too. However, I am never taking my car there again since they don't seem to know how to work on an older one. Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that you actually have to FIND the problem in our old cars rather than just hooking up a scanner and plugging in a new part. I had them try to fix something, then when I went to an independent and told them what they did he just shook his head.

Also, do you think that a dealer, with their 2003 CL600s sitting in there, is going to give your old 10, 15 year old "clunker" its deserved time? I doubt it. Good chance you'll get a hurried job to get it out of the way for the CLK that is waiting.

So I would personally recommend an indy over a dealer in the first place. I'm sure many here will agree with me. Look for one with a tech with some gray hair, chances are he worked on 126s when they were new.

A little note on working on a 126 yourself. It is easier to work on than you might think. If you have any mechanical ability at all, you can do more than spark plugs. With the numerous great write-ups on this site and others (esp. Thomaspin's www.pindelski.com), you can do about anything. If it's not on his site, search this one and you're likely to find something. I have a mechanical mind, and (before getting my car) have not done more than an oil change and small things like that, and I changed the timing chain in mine successfully amongst many other things. It's a wonderful car for a DIYer.

Good luck and tell us what happens!

__________________
'86 420SE Euro
904 Midnight Blue, Gray Velour
Dad bought it new, now I own it.

"A Mercedes-Benz is like a fine wine, it only gets better with age."

hello
i need part for my 1961 mercedes 300d
if any one knows please send me an email
ialqirtas@yahoo.com
thanks alot

OK. Thats strange. A 3 year old post brought back up with a question that has nothing to do with the difference between a S500 and a 560SEL Mercedes.

Also- the description of the part needed is rather vague.

Try looking in the parts section?

Bizarre.....

I had a similar experience with my 89 420SEL -- which is in close to mint condition overall. It had a slight A/C problem, working erratically and I took it in to Park Place in Dallas for diagnostics. They charged me $125 and found nothing .... I replaced the A/C relay and cured the problem instantly. When I complained to the Shop Manager, he just said they had to look at things in general and admitted they never considered the relay!! I will never take my cars there again, for anything but a paid service recall like the recent ones on my 99 ML... they are just making too much money on the new car service and are losing the mechanics who knew the older models. Ben Carter

__________________
Ben Harrison Carter
1999 Mercedes ML320 87K
1992 Mercedes 300CE 89K
1995 Corvette 29K -- Sold Dec 09
1989 Mercedes 420SEL 99K -- (Sold 4/08)
1968 Mercedes 230S (106K) (Sold 9/06))
1976 Mercedes 450SEL 130K (Just sold - 06)
1961 Mercedes 220Sb (sold years ago)