(Funny how J D Powers dissagrees with your statement.....quite a few GM products are far more reliable than Mercedes....and hold the top 10 best slots....)

I never said that MB is a reliable car, I guess that's why more people jumps ship to high performance and reliable cars like Lexus. I also never said that GM cars are less reliable... We as consumers speak loudly as far as choices for our money, unfortunately GM does not make cars that consumers want right now. Number speaks for itself, GM stock drops 40% in 12 months, GM is closing down 12 plants... I feel sad for all of my friends who work for GM. Will Ford and Chrysler be next? Only time would tell. The truth is, in my opinion, we are now competing in the global market, 30-40 yrs ago "made in USA" was king, just because nobody could make the products that we made, so there was nothing to compare to, now people have more choices and consumers are smarter and better educated. My company bends backward to please customers for "sustainable" business and so far it's working. We quickly pull products off market if customers don't want them , we only work on project with customer's needs in mind. The years when IBM and Bell Lab worked on "blue sky" projects are gone... Lesson to be learned

I'm not a fan of GM products but the closing of numerous plants is sad for the families of the employees that will be losing their jobs. But, does anyone think for one second that the employees themselves or the unions that "represent" them will ever realize that it was their actions that are causing this?? Auto unions will put American auto manufacturers totally out of business within 10 years unless the workers wise up and get rid of them.

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1996 SL320 97K miles
1996 C220 130k miles
1992 500SEL 170k miles <---sold
1986 300E 216k miles <---sold

No, the US automakers will just move their factory's to Mexico to take advantage of nice cheap labor.

I have zero sympathy for GM they brought this on themselves. People have been saying this will happen for 10 years now. You can't pay people $20 an hour with full benifits and retirement to sweep freaken floors. Thats not how you run a business, fire them and replace with min wage labor.

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2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

with gm is not the labor. the problem is with the bean counters in charge of the company. gm has not cared about making a better car since the early fifties. they are going down the tubes because their products are out dated, low quality and not good looking.

christ, it was sloan in the forties who said "the business of gm is not making cars, the business of gm is making money". it took a long time to squander 60% of the us market they enjoyed in the sixties, but they finally have managed it thoroughly.

tom w

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

In the case of GM you can honestly assign the blame 50/50. Any company that pays its workers 95% of their wages when they're not working is a mismanaged company. They created a welfare state for their employees, thinking they are immune to competition. The really sad part for the workers and their families, is that they didn't see the handwriting on the wall; it's only been there for like 15 or 20 years. They thought the party would last forever, they deserve $27 per hour, and they took out mortgages thinking they would get increases and overtime forever!

Unfortunately the longer the party the worse the hangover will be...

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Lenny

There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games. --Ernest Hemingway

'10 GL550/'04 BMW 545/'99 BMW 323/'98 ML320/'87 VW GTI (race)

My "LAST" GM car broke the C ring which locks the half shaft to the diff. The rear wheel went side-ways. Lukily it occured right in front of my drive way, not in the high way. Won't push my luck again!

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Shane83SD

One of the big differences for me is the fact that I really like my MB, more than anything I've had since my first car.
Mercedes parts can be ridiculously expensive. Sometimes all the fancy high tech stuff guarantess less reliability. Which do you think will be more troublesome - an electric window or one you roll down?
But the big difference is that I feel my MB is worthy of my attention, time, and money when necessary. With other cars I've owned, I frankly just didn't care; it was just a car.
When I drive my mercedes, I just love the solid, dependable, steady sense I get. I'm not just getting there; I'm enjoying the drive.

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Love driving my '77 450 SEL!
124,000 miles

when america was going thru the industrial revolution employers treated workers like slaves. unions saved the day. today the workplace is so open that workers freedom to move from job to job enforces a competition among employees to offer better wages, conditions and benefits.
therefor, unions are just leaches that skim money from both employers and workers without giving anything you would'nt get anyway. in america there is no need for unions any more.
look at delta airlines...long term pilots have built up their salaries only to reach a point where they are making so much money that it bugs the financial crap out of delta. union rules prohibit delta from replacing a 58 year old pilot making 110k with a 32 year old making 48k. so delta plans bankruptcy which will allow them to force 58 year old pilot to work for 65k. the union is powerless and is the first one to agree in order to keep the union dues flowing. so now, instead of just delta fighting to stay alive and the pilot fighting to stay alive...you have the union fighting to stay alive - at who's expense?

I disagree with some of the statements concerning GM. The problem with GM is that they are not making car consumers want to buy. All the rest are just excuses.

As far as wages and benefits, Toyota pays about the same wages as GM. Their entire process from design to manufacturing is more than GM/Ford. Toyota takes care of their employees and the workers in turn go the extra mile.

Toyota can sell cars without huge rebates.

All GM/Ford want to do is make as many cars as possible in a day. If the stampings are out of spec. instead of shutting down and adjusting the press (can take upwards of 4 hrs for some operations), they just drill addtional holes or use hammers.

At Toyota, an assembly worker can shut the line down for a quality concern.

I'm not famiiar with the MB manufacturing process, but my guess is that it is very labor intensive and operator dependent for quality.

At the component level, I know of a manufacturer that had been making parts for GM/Ford/Chrysler for over 50 years, when they started making parts for Toyota, Toyota required several additonal quality checks and it was found that the supplier was not capable of producing the parts to Toyota Specs. Infact, 1 hr of production required 1 hr of checks, as some of the checks were time intensive and had to be carried out in a lab envirnment.

As a result of this, the supplier in question, invested addtional capital to improve the process. Ironic parts is, GM/Ford started getting the better quality parts with no effort on their part, as the same manufacturing line was producing parts for them as well!

I'm not familiar with the MB manufacturing process, so I cannot comment, but I suspect that it is very inefficient and labor intensive, resulting in overpriced cars. As the MB brand image dilutes, they will not be able to charge (possibly a $10-20k premimum) in the future.

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Zafar
94 E320 58000 Miles

I am a fan of GM products, vintage products. The issue as I see it, isn't the unions, does anyone really believe that a GM product would be cheaper if the unions didn't exist? The retail price is driven by demand. Would the quality of the aluminum part made in Mexico be any less likey to fail if the guy bolting it on weren't a member of the UAW. GM's troubles are self inflicted from the design and accounting departments. Americans abuse their cars, failure to design for this is inexecusable. Allowing excessive use of cheap materials that are prone to breakage leads to a perception of cheap quality.ex.Chevrolet door handles and hinges 1980's. Brand loyalty is everything, in 1984 I drove my first car (1965 Impala)to the parts dept. of my local Chevrolet Dealer, the reception was not a pleasant experience, I was directed to the junkyard and told to take my junkheap with me. I haven't been to a Chevrolet Dealer since. In fairness when I went to the local Mercedes dealer to purchase a new trunk emblem years later, the counter lady stared at my blue jeans, peered down her nose and asked in a very loud and disaproving voice "Diesel?". The people and the product that represent a corporation in dealing with the customer can affect the bottom line.

Hey all.

I have a 90' 124, and I have never had a better car. I have had VW, BMW, Honda Toyota and Audi, but the MB124 is the best!!! Its a great ride, low noise, smooth and its well built. Its starts every morning, its cheap to maintain, and its simple, yet advanced!!! If you are doing something to the car and its seems difficult you are doing it wrong. I maintain my cars my self. If you take care of your MB it takes care og you. You can't compare a MB to a Toyota etc. MB has allways and still is leading in the market. They have the most advanced cars!!! Thats because they use a lot og energy on developing the cars. If you are going to compare a Toyota with a MB you have to take a Brand Toyota new compare it to a 15 years old MB just to get near a result you can use, and the MB will still be a better ride!!!!

What is a "124"?

Now that I have a MB, I will chime in. I think some may think they are more troublesome, because more MB owners like them to be in perfect order. Also, these cars are more complex that other cars of the same vintage and it seems like more can go wrong.

My MB is a 1985 and I am sure there is nothing more wrong with it than the average 1985 car with 264K miles. My car is not perfect, but I am learning to live with its flaws and will repair them as I have the time.

My current problems are "stuck spark plugs", water leak into the RR floor pan, cassette player is very slow to work, minor lifter clack on the right side of engine, two windows not working, leaking RR taillamp, antenna grommet needs replaced, as does antenna, dead paint on top.

These are not really so much problems as they are just routine maintainence items listed below:

I paid $1000 for the car, which is in good shape, considering the year model. I had to pay an additional $100 for shipping, $100 in taxes/registration, $20 for brake pads, $150 for mufflers, $20 for spark plugs, $25 for oil change (will need another soon, as the oil was very dirty), so as you can see, I am slowly sinking money into it, but it these are things that it needs. More needed too, but I am being cautious, because I do not want to sink a lot of $$$ into a 20 year old car with 264K miles. With these miles/age, who knows what major problem could crop up next?

Again, maintainence items- need to change the transmission fluid and filter, change out the green coolant, new seals for the taillamp (right side), install front brake pads, remove "cowl" and check drains under there.

Luckily, so far, I do not have a lot of the problems that some folks have with these cars. My dash lights are still working perfectly and I do not have any rust issues, save for the bottoms of the doors where the drains have stopped up.


In conclusion/summary: Overall for a 20 year old car, it is pretty well. I have had much newer/lower mileage cars with more problems.

Another #1 key thing to remember is that it also depends on how well the car has been treated/maintained. These cars are costly to maintain and I am sure that a LOT of these cars are neglected more often than your average make of car.

124 is another model series - yours is a 126.

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1988 W126 420 SE

beware of fundamentalists!

I have owned several MB's over the past 20 years and every one got me in excess of 300K miles. Yes they all have thier quirks, but to me that is minor, and the DIY part of owning them is part of the fun. I suspect I aint the only one on this forum that has become a weekend warrior MB DIY-er. It's kinda my hobby at this point. And you couldnt beat me bad enough to get me to switch to a honda or toyota. They are nice cars, but they are not MB's.

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KCScout
98 S420 My Wife's Baby
97 S320 My road car
83 300D My old road car (love that diesel)
81 300SD Wife's former Baby
81 240D A fun stick shifter
71 220D My first one

Reality check on the price of parts too. In troubleshooting an issue with a '99 Chebby s10 pick up truck I called the dealer to get the price on a fuel sending unit for the tank level indication. Come to find out I can't get it without the fuel pump too. Dealer quoted over $600 for theirs. The local McParts has it for right at $300. In addition, you have to drop the fuel tank or lift the bed to do the job. The others (GM/Ford) are building disposable cars.

I just hope MB continues to build affordable parts for the 123/126 cars.

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Jim