I own a 1996 Honda Accord EX-R V6 and a 1995 Mercedes-Benz E420...both cars were purchased brand new...if you want an objective comparison based on an owner of both marques on which car is more reliable, I would say that they are pretty much on par...in terms of the Honda, other than the waterpump failing a few years ago, I don't think I recall any problems with the car...the lights went a bit berserk for a few days once, but the electrical gremlin disappeared and never reappeared again...with regular maintenance, the car has been running fine...some things I have been displeased with the Honda are:

1) The insurance seems to be much too high for an economy car...not a fault of the manufacturer I guess...these cars are apparently a common target for thieves...

2) Genuine parts are much too expensive for an economy car...I'm sure glad these cars are reliable...if not, I think the repair costs would rival most luxury brands...

3) The paint job doesn't seem to hold up well over time...I saw a small piece of paint that seems to be flaking on the edge of the hood...I do not know what exactly causes this...the paint also seems very "thin"...it is very easily scratched and scuffed...

The Mercedes came off the lot with faulty caps and rotors...the dealership couldn't seem to be able to diagnose it properly...the car also wouldn't start after a while because of it...after caps and rotors were replaced, the starter died because I kept overcranking it due to the aforementioned problem...had to get it replaced and couldn't exactly pin it on the dealership...I was quite upset over that entire incident...other than that, the only other out of ordinary thing I had to replace was the alternator...everything else was fine with regular maintenance...the car has far superior fit, finish, power, and road feel comapred to the Honda...but I did pay over 3X the price of the Honda for the Mercedes...one is a luxury car, one is an economy car...I have not been constantly plagued by problems to deem the Mercedes a lemon or a POS...

The trend that Mercedes build quality and reliability is slipping nowadays is correct from what I can see...Honda on the other hand seems to be taking advantage of the decreasing cost of technology and have been able to capitalize on them in their Civics and Accords to offer a very good package...Lexus seems to be able to offer reliability as well as luxury in a very good package nowadays...I wish Mercedes and BMW can take some time to re-evaluate themselves...they seem to be a shadow of what they were a decade or so ago...

Just offering an objective look from my experiences...

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1995 black pearl/black Mercedes-Benz E420 :

I love how you guys talk about MB cars built a long time ago as if they had anything to do with their current products. I fully agree that there was a time, many years ago, that Mercedes built a hell of a car. That's why I bought one - I hadn't realized how much their quality had slipped over the past decade or two.

The original point of this thread (the one a couple of you seem to unable to grasp) is that, based on my experience, they no longer lead the market on quality. One of the things I used to love about MB was how long the paint lasted. I can assure you, that is no longer the case. My paint job not only looked like it had orange peel all over (they were all like that), but it is flaking off and chipping in many places. I was tempted to take it to a body shop and have it color-sanded the day I bought it.

"450slcguy", you really are entertaining. I don't say this too be mean, but if you don't like the thread, go away. No one is forcing you to participate (over and over and over). This thread is about Mercedes quality vs the rest of the market and that subject is very suitable for a Mercedes forum, whether you like it or not. Your whinning about the 'good old days' is amusing. Do you think those dinky little three-door A class Mercedes will ever be "collectable cars"? What does that have to do with this thread? You sound like an old man standing on the porch shaking his fist at "those kids of today."

I have to repeat my earlier question - do you actually own a late model Benz or are you basing your opinion about their current quality on a decades-old product that has NOTHING to do with what they are selling today?

To tell you the truth, if you want an assessment of the build quality of the newer models, you should really go to www.mbworld.org It seems those with newer models tend to be over there, while MercedeShop usually deal with the older models...you can get a better feel/comparison of the build quality of the newer M-B's over there...I mean, people here don't get you because they own older Mercedes...you don't get them because you own a newer Mercedes...you already stated it yourself...

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1995 black pearl/black Mercedes-Benz E420 :

Thank you for being rational; I appreciate it a lot. My frustration comes from all this "back in the good 'ole days" stuff that has NOTHING to do with the subject of this thread.

For example, I used to own a LOT of Porsches, but I haven't had one in about ten years. If I were in a discussion about Porsche's build quality on their curent cars, I wouldn't dream of basing my opinon on the ones I owned because they have no bearing on the subject. The same with Ferrari. I had a beautiful little Dino 246gts, but my experiences with that car don't mean crap when talking about a Modena. It just common sense. I loved my early production Shelby GT350 (damn, I miss that car), but what does that have to do with the current Mustang? Squat!

most of us here own older mb's....
and many of us own mutiple mb's and what happens is we
wind up having one from each decade... so we have experience.

my experience is the newer they are the more trouble and maintenance
they require....

i was recently at the mb dealer and the new mb's have the same
body as the dodge intrepid... and my dodge intrepid 2002 engine failed..
and it is now in the bone yard...just picture a dodge intrepid with an mb emblem on the front.... its like when amf bought harley.... I also listen to
german shortwave and the germans are saying their quality sucks..

Well, I guess members are a little confused as to your argument...it was only towards the end that I sorta got what you were trying to get across...it just appears that you are lumping every single Mercedes-Benz car together and labelling them a "POS" based on your experience...you have to also admit the, "my Honda is better than your Mercedes" argument isn't exactly going to get you a red carpet reception around here...if you want to say that Mercedes-Benz build quality sucks now compared to before, then use your C43 as an example, I think most members will agree...just flip through the forum...most people won't deny that...

Just look at this thread:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=147397
It wasn't exactly met with much resistance by members...

It seems mbworld.org members are happy with their cars though...they seem to be in a state of bliss and worrying about wheels and bodykits...if they have the time for that, I doubt that they are being pestered by much if any mechanical problems...

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1995 black pearl/black Mercedes-Benz E420 :

How is it the same body when they don't look anything alike?

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Lenny

There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games. --Ernest Hemingway

'10 GL550/'04 BMW 545/'99 BMW 323/'98 ML320/'87 VW GTI (race)

I have had my 240D for only a couple months, but i bought it because i knew mercedes, expecially the older diesels, were an excelent investment, of course my baby is 23 years old and things are going to go wrong, But let me say this, i just replaced the starter in my car, I come to find out, that that is the orginial starer on my car. ITS 23 YEARS OLD!! how many Hondas do u know that can do that? Also my car has abot 238K on it, and starts up faster and better than my 97 Nissan altima with only half the miles. I dont care how much money i have to put into my mercedes, I wanta keep this thing running forever!

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1983 Euro 240D 277K
2016 Mazda 6
Coming Soon, 2013 Mercedes E350 Bluetec
Formers:
2012- Mazda 3
2007 Outlander- complete pile
1995 E300 Diesel 208K
2007 VW Passat 2.0T 63K SOLD
2003 Jaguar X-type 3.0 Sport Sold 04/11 w/88K
2009 Lexus RX350 9061 miles. Sold 04/09
2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS:Totaled Sept.,09 @ 24,000
2003 Infiniti I35 58K Sold
1984 300 turbo diesel 222K

Not sure what to make of that since the subject of the thread is whether Mercedes build quality has declined over the past several years and my posts have been on the subject of the '99 I own and its quality relative to the several other cars I have first-hand experience with.

Now, what is really confusing is the people who keep posting over and over about vehicles built during the Carter administration (or older) as if they are in any way related to the subject at hand......

Reliability-wise, I can give the S-class a little bit of leeway, since that is where most of the new technology is introduced and then gets filtered down. It has always been that way. Buyers should accept that they are driving cutting edge vehicles, with very complicated systems, that may have issues during ownership. However the E-class, C-class, and their derivitives need to be rock solid. Those are their bread 'n butter vehicles that form the reputation of the company.

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1985 380SE Blue/Blue - 230,000 miles
2012 Subaru Forester 5-speed
2005 Toyota Sienna
2004 Chrysler Sebring convertible
1999 Toyota Tacoma

I used to think I had problems where there were none & had (and still have) issues with the excessive prices MB dealers charge for service.

Once I got the WIS (workshop info. system - the shop service manual) that the dealers use, I was able to fix most things myself and at least understand what was being repaired by the stealership.

You can get the 2006 WIS for free that covers all models 82 and newer at http://thepiratebay.org/details.php?id=3478993

Now I love my Benz!

Benzbunny.

How can the WIS be ordered? I went to the Piratebay website but everything was so small, I couldn't read it.

P E H

I guess it also has something to do with "why" people pick the cars they drive...... I buy Mercedes cars because they are well engineered and are put together with high quality materials..... The thick door seals, double paned glass and pneumatic closing system on the doors of my 140 never cease to make me happy every time I open or close one.......

While a Mustang or Honda might be fast and reliable their plastic interiors and thin sheet metal and low end technology does not do much for me...... If your looking for "bang for the buck" that need is probably best served in a car other than a Mercedes......

Additionally one of the other reasons I drive Mercedes cars is I don't really care for "disposable" high end consumer goods...... Mercedes makes parts for the lifetime of the car..... American and Japanese cars drop parts support as quickly as they can in most cases...... Its difficult to get OEM parts when your Domestic or Asian car ages....... I have friends that are into high end audio equipment and criticize me for my choice of Bang & Oulfsen Audio equipment..... They say "for the price you paid for that you could get a much better performing system"..... The reason I bought my Bang & Oulfsen is they also have the same idea on parts and you can still get original parts and service for even some of their original equipment......

http://www.mercedes-benz-usa.com/

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Whether you think you can or cannot, Either way you're right!. by Henry Ford.

THink about it guys. Expensive to fix. Parts are also expensive. High maintenance. All of these is good news. If you are poor dont try to own this car. That just left few of them on the road. You can also buy Camry or Accord where you look like everyone else on the road. I would rather drive my 1995 E320 in style

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