Bravo Steve, I used to hear the same thing about Alfa Romeo Spiders. However, I love the car and found one that had been dealer serviced and not worked on by someone that had no idea what he was doing. That was 8 years ago and it has never hung me up... for that matter, none of them have and I we have a 66 Mustang Coupe, 78 Alfa Spider Veloce, 91 300CE, and, yes, two old Toyotas. Most of the problems with cars are a lack of maintenence. Yes you can buy a car today that boasts no maintenance for 100K but you do not want to be the owner of that vehicle once its owner realizes it is time to throw it away and start all over again. What ever happened to auto makers not making throw away cars? The problem is us, a people who are too much in a hurry to look under the hood from time to time and demand NEW every year rather than staying with something that is proven and works. I fear that Mercedes has jumped on that bandwagon to some extent...that is why I bought the 91 300CE...it is still a real Benz and a classic at that. I would not give it up for a new Camry or Honda. Someone who buys the pointed star, or an Alfa or Porche is buying a piece of history. Can you imagine any Honda or Toyota becoming a classic? My two cents.

I guess that depends on your definition of a classic.
I would say that the Hondas and Toyotas are defining reliability of automobiles today. Many people now compare them to the cars that they talk about. I bet if the new MB models that are available today had the same reliability and of the current Hondas and Toyotas, most people including myself would buy one and get ride of the current MB's that we have.

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2010 W212 E350 Sport
1996 W210 E320 (220K miles)

I can't resist. Words have meanings.

"I bet if the new MB models that are available today had the same reliability and of the current Hondas and Toyotas, most people including myself would buy one and get ride of the current MB's that we have."

Do you really believe that reliability is the only criteria by which we choose the cars we drive? What about style, status, safety, performance, comfort, among many other factors. How can you possibly make the statement that most people including yourself would buy one?
Most new MB's are from $40,000 to $100,000+. The luxury car market will never be for most people.

Steve

of course!! reliability should be No.1 how on earth could you show off the other factors if your bright and shiny MB would not even start? or stalls?

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joel

Prayers bring forth enlightenment.

I guess that why there is now brand called Lexus that has only been around since 1989.....luxury and reliability.....there are obviously a few buyers who care about both



Warren
Columbus Ohio

I for one wouldn't want to drive what everyone else has. For me performance, style, comfort, longevity, and reliability are most important, in roughly that order. Status I could care less about.

Most people I believe buy primarily on price.

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Lenny

There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games. --Ernest Hemingway

'10 GL550/'04 BMW 545/'99 BMW 323/'98 ML320/'87 VW GTI (race)

Reliability should be a large factor... so you prefer to drive the best looking car, let's say, and have it leave you stranded once in a while, have electric bugs here and there, have to pay $400 for a center console, have to depend on your freinds to pick you up from the mechanic in their Hondas, Nissans, and Toyotas, each month it breaks down (of course just "little" glitches). How do you feel that your car has been broken down, more times than all your freinds' jap cars COMBINED?

Of course, each "little glitch" is always $300-$700....

In my case, I did the math. I have had my car for 2 1/2 years, combined service / repairs averaged $140-$150 / month... I just said "f>uck it" if I just add another $100 / month, some down payment, equity on the car, and not worry about having the next "issue" come up.

Did I love my car? Yeah, we all do, that is why we're on this forum, that is why we put up with the **** of these cars.... My conclusion on my second mercedes and having it for the time I did is the following: These cars are for weekend only, you have to have a second car to drive while you work out the glitches in the next problem, check online for possibel resolution, trouble shoot etc on the weekend, or just lease/buy new.... Come on who are we kidding? These were $40K + cars when new, and now we are just "wanna be's"....

I am happy I am out of my E320 and driving Japanese. I have been eyeing the Lexus down the road, we'll see. Mercedes just rides on the brand and that is what sells.... A prestige thing (ie rolex, mercedes, corvette, harley davidson) ... OBVIOUSLY, NONE of these are best in their class, but society likes to show off and be seen with these "status" symbols....

My shop summed it up twice, once this week and last year at one point. I asked him, what model or year bmw/mercedes should I stick with to avoid these issues (I dont' think my car was a lemon, as it didn't have any more issues than what I see here for the most part)..... he said, "listen, they all have issues, if you want to drive 200K miles with no problem, you have to go with Toyota or Honda..."... This is someone who makes money on me and all the other MB / BMW owners, so it behoves him to see me drive more German cars....

I do give it to BMW/MB... they have the best fit, ride, metal, feel solid, etc... around.. the lexus and Infiinity metal feels like a coke can but they are Japanese and more reliable....

Cheers and have fun fixing you Mercedes

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1995 E320 smoke silver / parchment

the lexus and Infiinity metal feels like a coke can.......



That's simply not true.

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11 S550
09 C300
91 560SEL
90 300CE
84 380SE
83 240D

I have taken delivery of a brand new 07 Lexus RX350 the other day. It sure is a sweet ride. Sweeter than a can of coca cola

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joel

Prayers bring forth enlightenment.

Although I don't totally disagree with that point, I feel the need to defend myself and my 126. There are some of us who are capable of buying a new Benz, but prefer the older, more technologically uncomplicated models. Stylistically, IMHO, the 126 is the last of the traditional Benz-looking Benzes. My current 1991 has never stranded me, nor had my previous 126, nor has my 107. That's about 15 years of motoring. I consider that to be comparable to Japanese dependability. The older Benzes are expensive as hell to maintain, but quite predictable and dependable.

Moreover, how about those poor (possibly wealthy) souls who paid $60K to $120K for new Benzes that are giving them the blues now? Certainly you can't consider them to be wannabes. "Betrayed", may be a better description.

I have it on good authority that since the "merger", and the shift in management, quality control has become priority one at Daimler-Benz, as mandated by Dr. "Mustache" in the commercials. Owner complaints have been received and heeded. Judging by Car and Driver, the 2007 Benzes are testing favorably against other high end models, performance-wise. That was not the case 2-3 years ago. We'll see in a few years whether the quality control initiatives have taken hold.

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1991 560SEL (254K miles)
1980 Lincoln Mark VI - Givenchy
1979 Lincoln Mark V Collector's Series
1979 Lincoln Town Car Collector's Series
1979 Ford "Effie" Pickup (in gradual transformation to a show/street truck)
1969 Lincoln Mark III (waiting for "Overhaulin" to call)
1989 Lincoln Towncar
2001 Lexus GS300 (spousal unit's daily driver)

My '96 E320 has both notorious problems of W210 (1) rusty spring perch, fixed and paid 100% my a MB dealer at 71K miles (2) head gasket leaks at 78K miles, paid $1711 out of my own pocket to have it fix. This is not what I have expected for a $50K car... I gave MB a chance, but it failed to have me back as a repeated customer. I will keep current MB until I throw it away (250K+ miles, I hope). This is my first MB and will be my last. I will be going back to my Japanese quality , i.e. Lexus... My '87 Camry has 195K miles without a single problem , only scheduled maintenance. My son's '97 Maxima has 120K miles and still going strong, My friend at work has almost 300K miles on his '96 Maxima, without problems with head gasket, transmission, rusty spring perches... What else do you want? Maybe boring but you can't beat reliability

Well to each his own. I had '90 300E from 100K to 175K. '92 300E from 113K to current 244K. In the total of 206,000 miles there was only 1 instance of being stranded. Now these miles were 95% interstate and travels were long trips all over the Eastern U. S.
There were more than a few replacements of normal wear items.

Now these were not the first years of new model, bad idea generally. They were also not highly computerized. I did a fair amount, but not all of the maintenance work on them. The only thing that almost caused me to switch was the A/C system which went out several times. If my experience had been that I couldn't count on the cars, I would have been done with them.

Operating cost was a consideration. My starting assumption was, and is, that I am not going to sit in a Toyota for hours on end and mile after mile. Therefore, my choice is a car payment of over a grand a month for something I like, or a paid off 100K mile Mercedes with the maintenance cost.

So now I have recently gotten the '97 S320 with 109K, now 115K. Note last three years of model run. The car has full dealer service records so I know where I'm starting. We will see how it goes.

I also stand by my statements about style, status, etc. If they weren't valid reasons for purchasing decision, then Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, Land Rover would sell no cars. I have great skepticism about reliability surveys.

Steve

My former mechanic (I had an Infiniti G20 back in the day) owned a '94 Maxima that had over 500,000 miles on the odometer.

It was virtually trouble-free. He used to brag that the head had never been removed for work of any kind. Original head gasket. All he had done is routine maintenance and timing belts.

Nissan sure makes a good V6 engine.

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Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".