Jack stand placement on E320/W210
 

Can anyone tell me where to properly place a set of jack stands on a W210?

I have a floor jack and jack stands, but the last time it did it I used the MB jack and placed the stands on the rubber pads just below the jack hole. The top of the stands don't mate very well with the rubber pads though. Is there a better way to do it?

Thanks in advance.

I'd be curious to know too... I use a floor jack and stands and didn't see any obvious place to use the stands. So I made wooden inserts (see photo) to put on top of the stands to work with the rubber pads.

I should have made them out of hardwood, the 2x4 wood I used compresses if the car is on too long, allowing the side panel of the car to contact the wood.

If I run into someone with a machine shop I'd like to have them cut something similar out of a chunk of aluminum or something, ideally with some side panels welded on to keep them from sliding off. Maybe someone here will manufacture some as a mini business venture? :)

Or maybe just weld a plate of steel permanently onto the top... hmm... actually I have access to an arc welder and some steel. Anybody see any downside to that? Welding wouldn't weaken the stand or something?

Benzwood,

Where'd you get those stands? Brand name?

Thanks,

glenmore
1991 300CE

Yeah, seems most stands are still designed to receive axle tubes, long after axle tubes have become the exception. Sometimes they do sit nicely under suspension components, but usually not frame fails or bodies.

I typically just place a flat block of sacrificial wood under the rubber pads on the MB, then let my stands crush right into the wood. Not optimal, but realistically they are not prone to slipping when dug in like that.

A nice flat-topped stand with a thick rubber pad would be ideal for most cars these days.
May weld up something someday. Maybe I could market them...

glenmore, they are LARIN brand, I bought them at Menard's (a big Midwest home-improvement chain). They are a cheap Chinese import, under $20 for the pair if I remember correctly.

It was the last box they had available in several stores I checked... it appeared Menard's was replacing them with the more common ratchet adjustment, which I don't trust, especially on a cheapo stand. I like the through-pin design where I can readily see the pin is engaged.

Other than that, they aren't the greatest... the post wiggles around a bit inside the support tube, and the four legs aren't exactly the same length. I haven't ground down the oversize legs because of the above-mentioned fear... I don't know if the heat would cause the metal to weaken. Is there a metallurgist in the house?? :)

csnow,

If you build 'em, I'll buy 'em. Unitl then I guess I'll use the "sacrifical wood" method.

Ok, so I think to myself, this is ridiculous... someone must sell some flat top jack stands.

Took a long time searching, and as I searched, I gathered from my reading that the reason for the V-shaped top is so that the load centers itself.

This is probably especially important in lower-quality stands, where an off-center load would be more likely to topple the stand or snap the top.

But, finally I found some. AC Hydraulic brand, jack stand nirvana... mmmmm....

http://www.ultimategarage.com/3000N-1.jpg

Ain't cheap, though. Ultimate Garage

A little cheaper here, flat-top version not mentioned but they may carry them. Automotive Service Equipment

The AC Hydraulic jacks seem to get rave reviews as well, at a semi-reasonable price for what looks like very high quality and exceptionally low-profile clearance. Here's one such review.

Aaaaahh.... no problem slippin' this beauty under a front spoiler:
http://www.ultimategarage.com/DKJacks1.jpg

I'm officially suffering from tool envy now!

Sweet.

Though I would prefer one with an acme screw design so that it could be set at any height, and not rely on pins or rachets.

Perhaps I could modify a 'house jack' to have a wider base to resist tipping.
Hmmm...

But 20 tons is probably overkill...

Here's something:

http://www.edwardsmanufacturing.com/jackstand2.jpg

12 tons, 18-28 inches.
18 is pretty high for a minimum, though, and they are $106 per pair.
http://www.edwardsmanufacturing.com/jackstands3.htm

This guy has made a nice adaptor for his Porsche. That with just a flat top and a rubber pad on it would be pretty good.

http://www.realtime.net/~rentner/Por...PadonStand.jpg

http://www.realtime.net/~rentner/Porsche/JackPads/JackPads.html

Yeah, that adapter is the kind of thing I had in mind (sans thumbscrews... looks like the guy spent some serious time on that bad boy :)).

You wouldn't even need a rubber pad, Mercedes supplies that on the car.

Another option might be to make a little steel box, closed on all but one side, that slipped over the top of the support saddle. No tricky machining required to fit the countour of the saddle. Though I suppose the weight of the car would then be supported by the outer edges of the saddle which isn't ideal.

Was looking around some more and finally found the AC Hydraulics web site, tricky to find for some reason.

Forget all this jack/jackstand stuff... check out the portable auto lift... be the envy of your gearhead friends!

AC Hydraulics Auto Workshop Equipment

Lift would be sweet. Not exactly in the budget.

I like your 'plain box' idea. I do not think shifting the weight to the outer edges would create a capacity problem. Simpler than what the Porsche guy did.
As long as it fit pretty tight on the sides, it would be very stable.

The only downside here is that it would not be as universal, in terms of fitting on a variety of ratchet jacks. For example, I have several brands and sizes, all with different saddles. Maybe a simple box with open ends, and setscrews on the sides. Like the Porsche guy, but somewhat longer to avoid the fussy contouring.

The rubber top is so that it can be used in other places on the MB, and on other cars.

Benzwood,

Thanks for the links. I'm not too crazy about the rachet type stands either. The AC ones look nice. And that low profile jack looks very similar to the one sold at COSTCO. This will be the basis for some future thread : "When do I start saving money by DIY?"

glenmore
1991 300CE

Do you have more details on the Costco jack? If they have the AC Hydraulics jack I'd be very interested to know which model and price. Unfortunately no Costco where I live now, but I'd make a special trip next time I'm in Chicago.

I bought my jack at Sam's Club... it's a massive Michelin branded cheap Chinese import, $65 or something. I had to return the first one when it started auto-lowering now and then. :( The new one seems better though at first it wouldn't lower all the way without a load. Seems to have broken in now, hoping for the best. Get what ya pay for, I guess.

csnow, regarding rubber pads... I ran across somewhere in my searching where a guy used hockey pucks on some customized jack stands. Might be worth a try.

Benzwood,

I'll check out the one at COSTCO ad let you know.

glenmore

Went to COSTCO to buy a jack but they were all out. Here is some info from the floor model.

Manufacturer: ARCAN
3.5 ton capacity
Dual hydraulic pistons
model LL35
Ultra low , looks like about 3-4"
front steels wheels have grease fittings
flat saddle with metal cup attachment

Best feature, price $70!

glenmore

Thanks for the info... I assume from the price it's a Chinese import too.

Sounds a bit nicer than my Sam's Club one, though. Interesting that it has dual pistons, maybe that's to get the clearance lower.

The clearance on mine is about 5.5", with a max height of 22".

Flat Top Jackstands
 

As a fellow MB owner (2001 E55 & 2002 ML500), I'll offer the flat top rubber pad stands at $70.00 each to members on this list. I have the exclusive on this product and another 300 coming in later next month. Even compared to ASE deals pricing, a regular 3000N plus rubber pad comes out to $64.00. For the additional $6.00, you get the special flat-top post (instead of the cradle post) which is ideal for supporting cars on frame rails and other flat surfaces. Regular price on the stands is $95.00ea. Offer expires Sept 15th or until the current inventory is deleted. If this posting is inappropriate, let me know and I'll delete it.

http://www.ultimategarage.com/3000n-360c.jpg

Oooh, that's getting into tempting range. :)

I'm curious, have you actually used these stands with your MBs? In looking at them closer (the pics on your site), I wonder if the pad might compress too much in the center (especially since it appears to be heavily slotted) causing the edges (where the metal lips are under the pad) to contact the side of the car when used with the car's rubber jack point.

I have a similar problem if I try to use my rubber-padded jack with the car's jack point.

The rubber on the jack point on the car itself also compresses quite a bit leaving very little clearance.

I guess ideally, a flat incompressible metal pad on the jackstand is what would work best for this specific purpose.

Back to my clunker stands... here's the steel I have available for free. This is a 1/4" thick piece. Kinda crusty... before/after photos (an excuse to use my recently aquired angle grinder with wire brush :)).

I looked at the realities of making a box to cover the stand, and I dunno... with the angles caused by the bent saddle, and the overall crude construction, there are no straight sides to be found. I could make it loose fitting, or custom-fit it, but it's still 5 pieces to cut and weld vs just one if I welded directly onto the stand.

Here are simulated before/after photos if I did weld it directly on. The black stuff in the first photo showing where I'd arc-weld it.

The second photo is via the magic of Photoshop. It also shows grinding off some of the other pointy edges.

The advantage of this (in addition to simplicity) is that you could grab it by the top without anything falling off.

I have some 3/8" thick steel that I could use too with a little more cutting, but I'm not really sure strength is an issue... I presume steel is a lot stronger than the cast iron that I think is used here on the stand? I also presume I can arc-weld steel to cast-iron (if that is what the stand is)? I must plead metallurgical ignorance again.

Another alternative came to mind if I'm making a permanent modifcation anyway... why not lop off the crude saddle completely and weld a flat plat right onto the tube? But, I'm a little concerned about the integrity of the plate-to-tube weld. If there was any imbalanced load it might pop off one side (not trusting my welding skills here).

Then a (short-lived) Eureka moment... how about making a detachable flat-top to go on the bottom of the tube, and flip it upside down? See photo.

That way I can leave the saddle intact, and make a more easily constructed removable flat-top (a plate of steel with a block welded on the bottom that inserts inside the tube).

But, as you can see from the photo, the problem is that when you insert it upside-down, the saddle prevents you from adjusting it any higher than shown on the left. As opposed to the normal full-extension as shown on the right.

So, I think I'm back to welding a plate on top of the saddle. Seems like the easiest and the safest... my weld is really just holding the plate steady, it's not under any load.

The disadvantage is obviously that the stand is permanently modified... if I ever wanted to use it as a saddle-type I'm outta luck. But since the stand is so cheap that's only a $20 fix... just buy another set.

If you're handy with torch and have the appropriate materials around, you can make your own flat top stands. I like to start with a decent set to begin with and go from there.

http://www.ultimategarage.com/AC3000Support1.JPG

With a the lawyers in this country, I had the manufacturer in Denmark make these for me (they've got strict TUV standards to follow). Of course, they wouldn't do a run of 4 stands...the job was based on a somewhat larger commitment. SD

http://www.ultimategarage.com/acstandsnew22.jpg

Benzwood,
Very unlikely that your stands are cast iron. Cast iron is tricky to weld, and requires special nickle rods.

If you wanted to get a little more complicated, you could fabricate a removable insert that would slide into the end of that 'upside-down' tube. That way you could remove it, and use the other end as needed.

For a 'one off' solution with your arc welder, it may indeed be easiest to simply cutoff the existing saddle, and weld on a flat one.

What would be the disadvantages of just using duct tape to stick the sacrificial wood blocks on top of the cheapo jackstands?

Do they have concours d'elegance for home DIY repair? Am I missing something?

My experience is that you might have to install new duct tape every three years or so.

Duct tape can be painted to match your jackstands, or you can find it in nontraditional, tasteful designer shades.

ultgar, I didn't realize you had these custom-made, glad somebody out there realized the need and did something about it! Can you address my question about them though (just after your first post)?

csnow, thanks for the cast-iron info. I was assuming it would be cast iron (cheap?) but after I posted that I realized that the saddle looks like a strip of steel that was bent and sheared off. Regarding the removable insert, that's what I was trying to communicate in my last post, but unfortunately as I mentioned the max height suffers greatly when you flip it upside down.

Richard, do you have the MB part number for this thing you call "duct tape"? I want to make sure I get OEM quality with the star logo silk-screened on it. :) My current wood blocks (made from a 2x4) have the problem of compressing when weight is on them, and along with the normal compression of the rubber pad on the car, the sides of the car actually contact the wood. I could probably fix that by using a hardwood like oak instead. But they also wiggle, creak and groan under use, and just generally do not give me a warm fuzzy feeling when I'm lying under a couple tons of chest-crushing metal.

These are the same rubber pads used on the AC Hydraulics jacks. They are solid in the center of the pad, about 20mm (3/4" approx) thick. I don't know the Shore hareness (D durometer) number...presumably 50-60. Even if they do tear up over time, they are easily replaceable.

Wood blocks could potentially split, especially on non-flat surfaces causing the car to shift on the stands. Better make sure those blocks are made of Ipe or some other hardwood. DS

I agree with you wholeheartedly that the wood is a bad idea.

I wasn't concerned about the the rubber on your stands disintegrating, it sounds like the manufacturer cares about quality, and at $20 a pop I assume the pads are top quality :), but I still have this question... repeated here:

I wonder if the pad might compress too much in the center (especially since it appears to be heavily slotted) causing the edges (where the metal lips are under the pad) to contact the side of the car when used with the car's rubber jack point.

I have that problem if I use my jack under the rubber jack point of my car. The metal cup hits the side of the car because both the rubber on the jack and on the car compress under load. My jack has higher protrusions so it's more of a problem, but I wonder about the protruding lips on the AC jack stand.

If you've never tried it on an MB jack point, I'd be happy to accept a complimentary sample and write a review. :D

My shop is still undergoing a lengthy remodel....the only car I've had a chance to use the stands on is the Mini Cooper. I've sold quite a few to BMW M5 owners and their car is similar to the MB and a little heavier than my E55. Steve

Wood block splitting wouldn't be a serious concern if it was made thinner, say standing no higher that 1/4" above the metal vee.

Hi,
I read the previous posts, but I still have some questions:
1. What is the safest points to lift the car (124) with the floor jack like the blue one in the picture... I need to know where it is safe for the front and the rear or the side of the car...I need to raise the car and put the stands without using MRBZ tricky jack...

2. Where jack stands could be placed, other than under the rubber support

3. When raising one side of the car (left or right), how far it is safe without affecting the car

4. If I need to raise the whole car (4 jack stands) what is the sequence rear first or front first, I assume front first since there is bigger load.

5. what are the precautions to prevent the car from slipping from the jack point. The jack can slip from the rubber...may be there are other jack support points safer than that..

I appreciate any help,
thanks

I bet the wood would not split if you were to drive some screws into it, about two on each of four sides, and then wrap it all up in genuine Mercedes Brand Duct tape and attach it to the jackstands. It might even stop making unsteady creaking sounds.

I have been known to use FOUR jackstands, to avoid the chest crushing problem.

One pair is black and has a flat head with a sort of corrugated head. I got them in a yard sale for $5.00. The other pair is red and cost $7.00 in a different yard sale. I have a heavy pair of wood blocks I paid a buck for as possible back-up stands. They have showed no signs of splitting in the past ten years. I also have a formerly red set of ramps, that set me back $4.00, plus a half a buck for half a can of aluminum spraypaint.

Both pairs of my jackstands claim to be good for up to 3000 lbs each, and my car weighs 3600, so I use two and I can't see how there would be a problem.

Of course, I realize that this disqualifies me from the DIY Concours d'Elegance at Pebble Beach, perhaps forever.

Richard, agh, it's worse than I thought... please don't tell me you use (gulp) YELLOW mustard on your brats! The extra jack stands is a good idea, by the way.

toknow, sorry to hijack your thread. :)

I don't know where you'd jack the whole side of the car up, or why you'd want to.

For the front, I use the beam that's directly in line with the front wheels. It's also the only scrap of metal showing if you have an engine cover like mine, so presumably that's what MB wants us to use.

For the rear, I use the differential. Note that my jack has a rubber pad in the head, I probably wouldn't want to do this with straight metal-to-metal contact.

For jacking up both ends, unless you need all the wheels off, I would feel safer using ramps for one set of wheels and jack up the other end. One less possibility for tipping over. I have and really like the Rhino Ramps. Make sure you don't have any rolling-off-the-ramp slope issues if you do this.

If you're jacking both ends, I'm not sure it matters which you do first. Your idea about the front first being heavier makes some sense, and I guess I'd do the front first anyway so the rear parking brake could be set while you do the front jacking.

I'd jack the front and put on stands. Then jack the rear and put on stands.

Then go to the front AGAIN and jack it up just slightly, as the front stands have likely shifted a bit when you jacked the rear. Reposition the front stands to be perfectly centered.

Then get on under there and hope there isn't an earthquake while you're working. :) If you can leave the jack in place without it getting in your way that would probably be a good idea too.

Just my (in)expert opinions. Don't sue me when you're crushed like a writhing cockroach below das German steel... :)

ultgar, ah-ha!! So you do need a review of these stands on a Benz!

I gave it a little more thought, and it would be pretty easy to make a little metal disk with a shaft that would just drop in and replace the rubber pad on your stands if needed. That way no extra deflection when using the MB jackpoint pads.

So do you want to take me up on my very generous offer? A free pair of evaluation stands for a (hopefully) glowing review, replete with detailed photos? Or maybe free shipping at least? :)

Nice try Benzwood....next you'll want a free jackplate for the 124 that inserts in the rocker panel to lift the car with your floor jack (yes...I know that's not a BMW but my E class uses the same type of insert for the factory jack


http://www.ultimategarage.com/JackPlate.jpg

http://www.ultimategarage.com/Jackplate1.jpg

My garage workshop pictured below has been totally torn apart...I promise I'll take some good pics of both the E-class and ML on the stands so you can see the deflection if any to the pads on the jackstands.

http://www.ultimategarage.com/Garagekaeser.jpg

Awww man, now you're just showin' off. Nice shop! :) By the way, do you also import and/or have you tried the AC Hydraulic Autolift?

That jack hole gizmo is cool, and reminds me... someone (here?) had made some rods out of thickwall pipe, bent slightly, so that when inserted into the jacking holes they stick out horizontally. They can then be cradled nicely in a saddle-type jack stand.

Kind of a slick solution other than having to pop the hole covers off all the time and maybe wearing them out. But I'm not sure I'd be completely comfortable with it as the stand isn't directly under the load. I don't know if it'd be more or less susceptible to shifting, but either way if the pipe snaps, yer a goner.

I love the AC Hydraulics jacks and sell them through my business....see http://www.ultimategarage.com/acjacks.html . I'm not crazy about their low rise lift....there are much better ones on the market that allow full undercar access like the Nussbaum show below.

http://www.ultimategarage.com/Sprinter2.jpg

The twin piston design eliminates the crossovers between the lift platforms and you can easily do an exhaust or clutch replacement with this. Its also portable, even at a hefty 1200 lbs.

I own a business that specializes in the design and outfitting of high end garages and workshops....I'm always looking for new, quality tools and equipment to use in my projects.

ultgar, Benzwood, I am amazed, overwhelmed and humbled at the evolution of this thread.

I just wanted to know how to safely jack my E320, but I gotten so, so much more. Now I'm looking for ways to justify buying some of those impressive jack stands. I've also been inspired to remodel my garage.

I can give you some photo hints on how to remodel your garage from this

http://www.ultimategarage.com/ultgar-pre90.JPG

to this.....

http://www.ultimategarage.com/garage606a.jpg

http://www.ultimategarage.com/garage606r.jpg

http://www.ultimategarage.com/landscape710a.jpg

........but that probably best discussed in a separate thread. SD

Hey, I'm not falling for those before and after shots.
The little 'apartment' in the back of the garage clearly changed as well...

csnow......here's the link with 14 pages of the photo details....see http://www.ultimategarage.com/UltGar2.htm . I've got to pull it back off the site at the end of the day. SD

Unbelievable!

Now THAT is livin' large...

I guess the house that 'grew' in the back was the neighbor's.

Building codes in by area do not allow floor drains. I have one in my old cracked slab, but if I replace the slab, I have to lose the drain.

Too bad you can't keep that slideshow up on your site, since I would like to point all of my friends to it. Probably takes some disk space, eh?

BTW, where do you live?
Not your home address so I can stalk you, or anything- I mean town or region...

I had the site up for 2 days last month and got over 300,000 hits. Earthlink charged me $650.00 for the excessive transfer volumes.

The interior will be on par with the outside with some fairly impressive technology....Crestron controls, Cisco wireless, 4wd chassis dyno, plenty of storage with granite countertops, LED & fiberoptic lighting, etc etc. I'm in Northern NJ, 3 miles from MB HQ. SD

Wow, you are absolutely nuts!! I love it!

Amazing chronicle, but starting with page 16 it isn't working... I missed "the rest of the story". Don't leave us hanging here. :)

An update on my flat-top jack-stand quest... since ultgar declined my review-for-stand payola offer :) I proceeded with modifying mine.

I decided to go with the permanent mod since it was the easiest and most convenient to use, and if I really screwed up the stands are cheap.

Here is the stand with paint removed and support plate cut. I also cut some round bar stock to support the middle of the plate. Probably overkill, but...

Here are the parts welded in place. Need I mention this was my essentially my first time using an arc welder?