On the Victoria Day long weekend, only the 190E still had it's snow tires mounted. The forecast in the mountains was for snow, and possibly lots of it. (I'll have pics of the snow in a few days...)

So, we took the 190E for the 1200km trip, without hesitation. It ran flawlessly, never missing a beat. It got 8.5L/100kms (28US MPG) as we took it pretty easy.

I would not hesitate to take off on a cross country trip in the 'ol gal.

American EGINEERS do a fine job -- American MANAGEMENT produces crap cars by the way they run automotive companies.

True of a lot of other things as well -- the current trend in my industry, counter to the desires of the engineers, chemists, and workers, is to quit doing anual maintenance shutdowns to "save money and keep production up" They never add in the cost of having a plant crash, pipes explode, or the lost product from an unplanned, forced shutdown or from lousy product made because the equipment is failing.

As far as Japanese luxury cars go, yes, they are lower maintenance, but look at the used prices for a clue as to how well they hold up in extended use.

Remember, the newest W124 is 12 years old, and the early ones are nearly 20. When the Lexus line gets to twenty, we'll see if they are reliable.

I'm getting ready to do some work in the TE so I can drive the whole family on a 500 mile each way trip in July -- AC evaporator, probably a heater core, and some shifter bushings. Might go hog wild and replace the tranny mount as well.

Peter

actually I have seen a couple of LS 400's with 150- to170K miles..trust me...they hold up

I used to think the weakest link of the luxury japanese products was their interior materials...leather...switches etc

but I think they have that problem licked

as far as prices go I think the LS is holding value better than a car of the same price point ...which I think would have put it about the price of the e430 brand new

My own personal vehicle has been no stranger to MB dealer...and the fact that almost every time I go one of the employees there tells me about all the issues they are having with the newer models and how expensive it is and how long it takes to diagnose.
Another issue I have with MB is the attitude of the Zone reps...they have almost flat out told me..."you have an old car with a lot of miles...what do you expect"..."why do you keep it?"

My answer to them is always..I keep it because after the $18,000 worth of warranty work that was done on it.. it should be a perfect car shouldn't it?"

And the fact that I was told that my car had typical 140 chasis issues...which is another subject they always dodge discussing
with me...they also never understand why I get upset when none of the repair money came from my pocket....I always comment that all the time and trouble that I have spent at the dealer ship is worth something

You know I really hope the MB has some committment to improving their reliability.I think right now their reputation is still selling cars for them...but there are way to many people I see at the dealer fed up with issues....if it doesn't improve in 5-10 years I think you will see major sales and/or resale value decline as people move to other more reliable models

Warren
1992 300SD 177K
Columbus Ohio

If and when there is a decline in Mercedes quality, this will adversely affect the selling price for our older Benzes, regardless of the fact they were built in the days of good quality.

Last year I had a nearly perfect low mileage '91 Tracer I needed to sell, as I had too many cars. Nobody was interested in buying it, even though I was asking under the fair value. Someone remarked that Mercury has a bad reputation in quality. He was oblivious to the fact that back in '91, Ford/Mercury were riding high in quality compared with the Big Three.

I disagree about old Lexus cars holding their resale value better than Mercedes. In my area, a 1990-1992 Lexus LS sells for $8-12K depending on cindition and mileage. A similar age E-Class is a $10K-15K car, so there is no major difference. The 300E in 1990 was WAY more new than the LS, but the LS was underpriced, and the 300E was overpriced.

A 1998 ES300 is a $15K-19K car, as is a 1998 C230. The C230 was a few thou less new, so percentage wise the C230 is ahead.

Black M.....your "old gal" is 4 years newer than my 300E, and I agree with you: I wouldn't hesitate to take her cross country. You take a chance anytime you take a long-distance trip that something will go wrong. Personally, I'll put my faith in the ol' 124 to get me back home over a much newer Subaru or GM or whatever. I was stranded a few years ago in the Grand Canyon, not by a MB but a (super-reliable Japanese) Nissan Sentra, and it was not an inexpensive proposition, believe me. It's all relative folks. Drive what will protect you, not your wallet.

well, i drove into a m-b dealer this last saturday afternoon. service dept was supposed to have been closed by the time that i arrived, but it was still open. and there were lots of folks roaming around the dealership[sugarland, tx].

i stopped by to see if they had a e320cdi[they didn't], but i couldn't help but overhear angry comments.

seems that the majority of the folks at that dealership were there not to buy a car, but to pick-up one that was supposedly repaired, but wasn't.

i have never heard such nasty language. nor seen such smoke rising from so many folks.

in fact, when i drove in i was in my 560sec. when i came out without any info on the new diesel, there was a guy standing by my car. when i entered the dealership i had overheard him reaming the gm of the dealership for the screwed-up service dept.

as i began to enter my car, he asked me how much i wanted for it. before i could respond, he proceeded to tell me how he had a 2004 CL55AMG that was a real garage queen. he wanted a car that he could use and he noticed that mine seemed to be a runner[it is]. then he went ballistic and told me how his goddam benz and the dealership had ruined his memorial day weekend. he had places to go and he was of the strongly-voiced opinion that he wasn't going to be doing it in his 2004 high-rent benz coupe.

asking me how much i wanted for my very cherry 1987 coupe, i told him: 60k. cash or cashier's check.

that put him into a new orbit. i exited the dealership. observing scores of people marshalling under the portico of the service dept.

NO NEW BENZES. that's my motto.

yours?

Message to MB. It's about quality. You are losing customers by the dozens. Pls, go over to a Honda plant and watch how they do. Pls,

I would be HOT ALSO if I paid/leased a $120K car and it didn't run correctly. That is probably why the staff turnaround at the MB dealerships is so high: they can't take the heat from all of the irate customers. Unless that guy brings the car in for the same problems several times to qualify for a Lemon Law buy-back, he might be stuck with it.

Ugh. I wouldn't want to be in his shoes if the car is in the shop more than it would spend in his garage.

hmmm...and what does that probably mean?


as for resale...I would say,in my area, that the 90-91 LS is worth more than the 300E of the same era(unless the Mercedes is a diesel that is)


but I agree with the earlier post about irate customers and turnover at the MB dealers...I have seen about 7-8 service writers come and go at the dealer I go to
You know I think part of the problem is that yes the car are less reliable...but I think also the dealership is a loss at how to fix the problems sometimes...almost like they don't get adequete training

Warren
1992 300SD 177K
Columbus Ohio

The Mercedes delaer near my home is completley at loss to fix almost anything.

With the check engine light on, service advisor stated "we cannot find anything wrong with the vehicle" (Needed a new engine computer).

In looking at inoperative Aux Cooling Fans "We replaced the fuse and let it run for 30 min and cannot find anything wrong. You may want to keep an eye on them" (Fans were drawing too much current).

Requested them to replace the aspirator blower for the ACC, they ended up replacing the interior temp sensor.

The tire rotation and balancing at the dealer resulted in vibrations at highway speed.

They do not provide loaners. Refused to replace the wiring harness under goodwill. Refused to replace the Aux Fans under warranty "You have to take them to the MB dealer who installed them" "It is over 12 months". If they had diagnosed the problem properly 10 months earlier, instead of just replacing the fuse, the fans would have been under 12 months.

I now try to do as much of the maint. work myself as possible. For other repairs, I'll either go to an independent shop or drive 100 miles to the next dealer.

I was working on my Cutlass over the weekend on certain electrical issues. It's refreshing to see only perhaps 10 lines under the hood, no computers, and a published circuit diagram that covers only two pages and is intuitive to follow. Yet my car has a/c, radio, ps, pb, plus I can put the top down. What more does a person really need on their car?

Barring the technology to meet EPA requirements, I really hold the buyer at fault as much as the manufacturer for how complicated cars have gotten. We've really come a long way!

It does seem to be a common occurance to see angy benz customers in the service dept. My MB dealership service has improved over the past 2 years. However, I observed the following when I took my car in about 1 week ago:

Made appointment by phone but when I arrived 3 days later they had no record of my appointment. Still took the car for service.

Overheard customer complaining that his MB was leaking oil since the last time the oil leak was supposed to have been fixed by the dealer.

Loaner cars. This dealership uses a 3rd party for most of its service loaners. A customer was waiting for 20-25 minutes and still didn't have his loaner. This was at about 9am. A rep from the rental car company adised him it would be another 1 hour before a car is available, but a truck would be ready now. He went ballistic. He didn't want a truck. I took a truck and left promptly.

The previous time I was in for service all 3 people in the waiting area were complaining together about all the service issues with their 2000-current MBs.

On a positive note, friend of mine has a 2004 E320 and has no problems whatsoever. Also, other than the appointment itself, I had no issue with my car's warranty B service. My car was serviced promtly and ready as promised. Checkout could have been quicker.

Just out of curiosity, does MB see the numerous posts made by us in these forums? Do they realize that their customers are so unhappy and turning to other brands like BMW and Lexus?

BTW, I agree with so many people when they say old Benzes only! My 300E is a tank, and damn, I really miss my 450SEL, not to mention the 300D.

No, they don't care. Most of us here buy our cars second-hand. They only care about the new car owner - that's where they make their money. Most of them aren't DIYers who post on MB forums.

Speaking of BMW, it's been documented that they've lost a lot of new car buyers because they were turned off by the complicated control unit on the dashboard (can't remember the name of this system). This was landmark because it's the first documented case of an automaker losing customers because of a car being too complicated.