Yeah, iDrive, it sucks! And the trunk lid still hasnt grown on me.

Lessons from history...
 

Packard for 50+ years had the reputation as the world's leading volume - luxury car. In the '30s, as the luxury car market vanished, Packard produced a "middle class" product, the 120, which managed to preserve most of the legendary quality while selling at a Buick-level price. The firm also continued to sell their "senior" cars, and customers like The White House continued to buy.

But in the early '50s Packard underwent a management change and a decision was made to try and penetrate each sector of the market, to go from a legendary straight-8 to a problem-laden V8, and the public forgot what Packard was all about. In an ironic too-late move, Studebaker / Packard tried to reclaim its status by importing the 300 Mercedes-Benz line.

From the '60s to the '80s, Mercedes-Benz slipped neatly into the niche left by Packard's death in 1956. Mercedes was first of all a paragon of engineering, build quality, glamor, and conservative good taste...as had been Packard. Had Packard not made the mistake of building "cheap" and "dumbed-down" products in the early '50s, they might still be around...and Mercedes might still be a european exotic. The same could happen again if Daimler-Benz doesn't quickly wise up.
Food for thought.

F1 Mercedes?
 

Any links between Formula 1 Mercedes-McLaren disasters this year and quality?
Did anyone see this past Sundays F1 Race in Germany....both Mercedes cars (Raikonnen/Coulthard) blew their engines....sad part is, It hasn't been an anomally this year for them!! Actually.. quite the standard!

The ONLY technical connection between Mercedes Benz company and the Formula 1 engine is the check that is written to lotus to design and build the engine.

It is clear that the association will be made in most peoples minds, but back in '98 or whenever it was that the MB engine won the championship MB engined that image associaton.

To the real quality issue of the new MB's. It's the electronics and gadgetry where the problems lie. The mechanicals are still superb. The bodies are not as well engineered as they used to be and the electronics are sources of SERIOUS problems for many of the drivers of the newer cars.

I am now in the ranks of those drivers. I have had so many electrical and body related Gremlins with my C240 recently that I now no longer own it. The thought of having such problems that are both EXPEN$IVE and beyond the scope of repairs that I can take care of myself after the warranty expires was more than I could stomach. As of this past Saturday the only MB that I now have on the road is my 300E.

The car did well for a few years. It was built about two months after the 203 was introduced in Europe in 2000. I knew better than to be the first in line to buy one, but it made sense at the time.

The car was a GREAT driving car in every way. If it had been a Euro type car without all the bleeding edge technology, it probably would still be reliable and still be mine.

It's a very sad time for me to beat my brains out to keep this car through my problems of last year including unemployment and then have it all end like this, but life goes on and my family is healthy, so I just keep it all in perspective.

I'm quite convinced though that MB will come back around. It's a pendulum. I've seen it in the industries and companies that I've worked for over the years. There are good times and bad times. MB is now at their worse, I would say that in about 8 or 10 years they will come back around.

My $0.02,

i think that unit on the bmw is called the ' idrive'. if i'm not mistaken. but you're right lot of customers didn't like it due to the over complication. i personally dont like a car where i dont even have the choice of yanking to original audio system out to put an after market better brand like alpine etc.

Most of the dealers don't provide loaners to customers who didn't buy their car there....they are pretty strict about the 12 month warranty...thats not really the dealer talking that is MB
The ONLY you will get help on that one is if you have been a good customer at a particular dealer and then per haps they will give you some good will...as for the wiring harness I never heard there was a goodwill on that issue?

Thats interesting as I had heard they had supassed MB recently in sales volume becuse of the strong sales of the new 5 series and the perenially strong selling 3 series cars


Warren
1992 300SD 177K
Columbus Ohio

Lets face it. MB glory days are fading. They have decided to improve their bottom line, and that means a decline in quality. To bad as they probably will also fade into oblivion.

turnne1,

I had a 94 VW Passat and the dealership always provided loaners. I had not bought that car from the dealer.

A large number of wiring harness's have been replaced under goodwill, as this was a MB design/manufacturing issue.

I guess I'm old school but I only like ABS and power windows. Traction control would be nice in the winter thats it. I don't want a $@#$% computer braking my car, driving my car, or telling me where to go. I want a direct mechanical link to all my cars main systems. The parktronic or whatever they call it is stupid. Sorry I can do that myself. Power seats are OK but come on I havn't adjusted my seats in 6 months would it kill me to do it manualy? I really don't like pushy traction control, I hate trying to have some fun and slide around only to have the stupid computer stop the fun. Also I don't want a computer telling me how fast to go whats up with the 155 limit? If I just paid $130k for an SL600 and it cut out at 155 I'd be extremly angry.:D Rant mode off. I feel better now:)

However look at the used car market, what models do we want 10-20 years down the road? The simple ones..

That is rare at am MB dealer unless you 1.bought the car from them or 2.had a substantial amount of service work to be done


guess the VW had better service?




were they the orginal owners of the vehicles and were there complaints while still in warranty?....I have a buddy whou bought a 95 E320 with 80 miles and they offered him nothing in the area of goodwill on the replacement of his harness

and have they rejected more goodwill than they have paid?


Warren
1992 300SD 177K
Columbus Ohio

All this yakking about MB not fixing "known defects" out of warranty. Find me a car maker than does that. None do. As to the list of "known defects" they are durned short, but unfortunately, some are pricey.

All makes have their list. Honda has a bunch of mid 90's four bangers that self destruct thanks to poor balance shafts. They have a whack of not-great four speed autoboxes,and a couple years of BAD five speed autos.

Toyota has a scad of sludge prone fours and sixes. They also have some bad five speed auto-boxes.

And so on...

Try taking your 1995 Accord with 150,000km's into the dealer with a broken engine and talking about "known problem" and see if they warranty it. What about a Lexus IS300 out-of-warranty with a slipping automatic? Forget it.

I had a 1990 Acura that had a 100,000km warranty. At 100,001 km's I was on my own. No matter what, Honda/Acura no longer warrantied the car. They had poor paint, they had tranny problems, they had leaking cam seals and leaking valve covers. They had some bad interior bits and hatches that rattled like a baby toy. Calipers that seized and rotors that warped easily. At 100,001 km's, it was all yours.

The number of posts with "I have a 15 year old Mercedes with a jillion miles on it and the tranny is slipping. Why doesn't Mercedes warranty this?" is insane.

Recalls are ONLY done for safety items. Nothing else. A leaky head gasket is not one. I think that Mercedes should have worked harder to solve the problem, but the fact is that a 1995 E320 with a new wiring harness (about $1000) and a new head gasket ($1500) is an AWESOME car.

The fact that some still get replaced under goodwill is amazing to! All cars have problems some are just more expensive. I think part of MB problem is people that are now buying there cars came from rock solid Japanese cars. A complicated E-Class isn't going yo be as problem free as a base Accord. Toyota did do a recall on the sludge problem.

Nitpicking: the newest W124 is 9 years old, that is 1995;)

~Nautilus

Well..as far I can see,using a 1990 LS400 as an example,....the LS ,as I recall was actually less expensive than a 300E of the same year.
And I think the used car market the the 90 LS is worth more than a 300E...as for repair cost...I am not sure what the Lexus costs...but I am famaliar with evap core and wiring harness failures on the 300E's
and I have seen with miles in excess of 150K and they seem to hold up well in the long term

Honestly I don't think the Lexus brand has any apolgies in the realibility area at all...and I think they are actually getting more relaibel as they get newer...while other companies seem to be going in the other direction
BMW and MB seem to be both having issues with their newer cars...except for the 3 series which I think is fairly reliable and the highest rated model reliability wise between the two makes




Warren
1992 300SD 178K
Columbus Ohio


Warren

Quality
 

I don't know where my 94 e420 is on that quality scale. BUT, this is the finest automobile that I have ever owned. It is starting to show some age, cracked leather and the paint is developing some blemishes. I have thought of trading it off but after test driving several new cars my wife and I get back in our "Benz" and look at each other and say, it just doesn't compare to our car. So we keep it. Doesn't have all the little goodies like cup holders, but it just feels so substantial. I'm married to it until I find something I feel is better.;)