My 86 300E 5 speeder needs a new exhaust from KAT back. PO replaced the front, the rear is unsalvagable. Fastlane wants 400 bucks for the center and rear muffler, all bolt on. Has anyone 1) Ever removed the center or rear muffler? 2) Used an aftermarket system they liked for under $50,000?? 3) Gone to Midas? 4) Done all the above and wished they stayed OEM? PS Why is Smity's 30% Cheaper? Scott

You get what you pay for with the possible exception of mass marketers. There you can be privaleged to pay more for less.

Get an ebersbacher system for the best price you can, if you wish to do the best job replacing what MB put there to begin with. If that isn't what you want I'll keep my mouth shut.

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Steve Brotherton
Continental Imports
Gainesville FL
Bosch Master, ASE Master, L1
33 years MB technician

Steve:

My friend the mechanic has been getting rather discouraged with factory replacement exhausts -- they are lighter and seem to burn out faster. He's trying Timevalve stainless systems at the moment. I don't have personall experience either way, but will soon, as I need a complete system on the 280. Will buy a Timevalve and see what happens, once I get done paying for a new pump for our well...

Peter

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1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!

What about like a Flowmaster or Borla system? I think a pair of quiter flowmasters would be real cool on a 560SEL/SEC. What makes a MB exhaust better then the aftermarket ones?

We have used a bunch of timevalve exhaust, mostly on classics. They are rather expensive for normal transportation and generally they are a pain to fit. Twenty years ago when all exhaust was butt welded they worked pretty good. When they started building slip joints it became real hard to do an install as their bends were never close enough for all the pipes to slip together and go where they were supposed to under the car. Getting them close to hanger locations was a real problem. We always wind up cutting the slip joints off and MIG welding the system together.

Other than being crudely made, virtually by hand it looks, they are made of the highest grade of Stainless Steel and the systems we put on 20 years ago are as bright and shiney today as the day they were installed.

How does one answer the question: why would a Merecdes part be better than aftermarket? Maybe I should start with the story of the three pigs and the brick house. Or maybe the KFC comeback to McDs parts is parts chicken. It's my guess if you have to ask you won't understand or believe the answer.

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Steve Brotherton
Continental Imports
Gainesville FL
Bosch Master, ASE Master, L1
33 years MB technician

I put a mail-order Eberspaecher rear muffler on my 300E and I was very happy with it. It was easy to install with the car on jackstands and I have no reason to believe that a center unit would be any different.

I have also had good success with a couple of Timevalve systems over the years, but you are better off to get everything from the manifold back. He builds to MB specs and if there is some aftermarket stuff in the system, the Timevalve pieces may not fit. Timevalve has never got the sound quite right IMHO.

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Chuck Taylor
Falls Church VA
'66 200, '66 230SL, '96 SL500. Sold: '81 380SL, '86 300E, '72 250C, '95 C220, 3 '84 280SL's '90 420SEL, '72 280SE, '73 280C, '78 280SE, '70 280SL, '77 450SL, '85 380SL, '87 560SL, '85 380SL, '72 350SL, '96 S500 Coupe

As far as OEM Mercedes parts go, I'd expect the exhaust to be very similar or exactly the same as the factory original, which to my mind means that if the original lasted 15 or more years in normal use, the replacement should too. Han's is disgusted with whatever he's using (it has the MB star on it, and MB part number), because they seem to only last a few years. Bad customer relations. Don't know the specifics, but I can see both him and the customer not being happy.

I believe that Timevalve does indeed hand build the exhausts, and accordingly plan to get mine complete from manifolds back. The only thing good at the moment is the header pipes, and they don't fit right (hang way too low). Not the only problem I have -- the clamps and the header to front muffler are not tight enough to seal the pipes together, and I'm hesitant to replace them for fear the muffler pipes are not strong enough. The clamp ring bolts were loose on both sides, too -- go figure! Whoever put the pipes in either used US diameters (most likely) or liked really loud exhaust, since both ends leaked.

Peter

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1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!

I'll add an endorsement for Timevalve. Put one on the 400e for the center and rear mufs. Comes with a as long as you own the car warranty. Less expensive than OEM and as Steve pointed out, will probably never wear out. If I remember, they use high nickel and chromium content plated stainless steel. The guys that installed it said it was as difficult to work with as any MB they worked on before. Which, I guess is a complement. Anyway it is quiet and no problems in the first 2 years of use.

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...Tracy

'00 ML320 "Casper"
'92 400E "Stella"

Timevalve advertises that they use 321 stainless steel, an alloy that nominally has 18%Cr-11%Ni. I've been paid good money to examine exhaust material issues for an auto manufacturer and found that 321 is one of the best grades of exhaust material commercially available before going to exotic material (nickel-based, or titanium). I don't believe Timevalve exhausts are plated - no need to.

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95 E320 Cabriolet, 169K

ixnay on the isdasmay

I know, big bucks for the Eberspaecher, but they do last a very long time, and fit perfectly.

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1986 300E 5-Speed 240k mi.

Ansa makes a bolt-on clone of the OE exhaust,which is probably priced lower than Eberspaecher or the dealer. Some say the Ansa quality is not as good as OE. I think it's been mentioned that Eberspaecher is the OE supplier.

The OE system is one piece from the cat outlet, but all the replacement systems (including OE) are two piece with a clamp connection just ahead of the axle.

The system isn't that hard for the DIYer to change because it's all bolt on and goes under the axle. I put an Ansa center section on my car about six years ago, and it's still okay.

Duke